Good point regarding capsizing. With my weight, I'll be jumping up and down on the daggerboard trying to get the mast tip out of the water. As for the wife, she's stuck with me no matter what I do. Granted if I stray, I suspect I would wake up with something missing. Regarding the purchase, my ace in the hole is that I'm selling my old underused skiboat. She's happy to see that go, so I can always say I'm using the proceeds for the extra cost. She'll take getting rid of the skiboat anyday over spending extra on a sailboat. It's win-win for both of us, except when I'll be looking out at the lake with 0 knot breeze and only glass.

Refer back to your post about drinking beer on the beach!

Standing on daggerboards to righten a cat is totally unnessary, is tricky and should be seen as abuse. It is something for monohulls.
I don't think/hope those daggers see forces of 80 kg or more in normal use (?)So why test them this way ?

Sail your boat in any decent waves or a bit of a blow and your boards will see a good deal more than 80Kg loaded onto them. That being said, you're right - it shouldn't be necessary to bounce on a board to right a modern lightweight cat.

What I have had to do though is just stand on the board (not on the tip, no bouncing) and just lean back to pull the Stealth back up. This is not abuse, and the board (and slot) can take it comfortably.

Ok, I won't bounce or stand on the tip, but at 138 pounds, I doubt it's going to be as easy as just standing on the board and watching the mast come up, especially if it's not blowing. I suspect I'll have to have a bag of water thrown over my shoulder to make it work. Won't know until I try it the first time, but maybe I'll have one of the beach crew come out on a waverunner to stand by as I see what works.

138 lbs = 62.5 kg

At that weight you are not going to solo right the alu masted F16's unless the wind is helping you by blowing on the tramp. You may just be able to right the carbon masted F16's, but even that will be somewhat challenging as 62.5 kg is not much weight by any comparison. I expect that even modern A-cats will have you hanging out flat while righting at that weight.

Alu masted F16's have their threshold at 72 kg (= 160 lbs)
Carbon masted F16's have their threshold at about 60 kg (= 135 lbs)

But these are thresholds meaning righting in flat water and no wind will be very challenging but doable, while righting with some decent wind and seastate may be noticeably easier.

Waterbag seems to be the best solution, favoured by several sailors. A few kg's or liters of water on your shoulder will be enough. It is the most depenable solution and the most inexpensive, simplest and lightest.


Wouter

Jamie-
At 138 I would definitely carry a waterbag. I'm about 30 lbs. more than you and I carry one on my 4.9 (narrower beam too!) as "insurance"- And I have had to use it once. Also doubles as a sea anchor in case you get in big trouble and want to drift slower.

Kirt

Jamie,

I'm 65Kg and have only once failed to pull the Stealth back on my own (admittedly it has a carbon mast). This one occasion I'd capsized about 4 times in one race , and on the fifth the boat just wouldn't come back - a combination of tiredness and the subsequent discovery of about a couple of litres of water in the mast!

Whatever else you do (waterbag etc.) MAKE SURE your mast is watertight. I've since done so by pressurising the mast with a small paint spray compressor and testing the length of the mast for leaks. I found two major ones at the hounds and one of the upper diamond tangs - I filled them with epoxy mixed with microballoons, problem solved!

Due to my light weight, I've given the carbon mast some thought as it should be easier to right than an aluminum mast. But it is my belief that Matt does not offer one with the Blade and I'm really not sure if it is worth pursuing or not. My main concerns are:

1) UV damage (5.5 months a year) and durability.
2) If it is an issue to have the mainsail cut to match the mast characteristics.
3) Getting a mast to the US if none made here.
4) Possible cost issues

I'm slowly coming to the point of committing to which options I want, so any thoughts would be appreciated.

Food for thought:

Carbon fiber masts vary widely in quality and utility.

Aluminum masts vary widely in quality and utility.

Aluminum will be lower maintenance and less expensive; opposite is true for carbon.

The superwing mast (on Taipans and Blades) is superb and at the high end of quality for alum masts and the low end of weight for alum masts. It will perform better than some carbon masts and is not THAT much heavier.

I'm not anti-carbon masts and may get one someday; I just want to point out that carbon doesn't necessarily make it better. I prefer my superwing alum mast to tear-drop shaped stiffer carbon masts I've tested. The ultimate carbon F16 mast has not yet been made--I would envision it to be similar in profile and weight to the latest A-cat masts but strengthened in strategic places to handle the loads of twin trap wires and spinnaker use. Until someone designs and builds such a mast, I don't believe there's much advantage over the alum superwing. Gary's Altered has the closest yet (sawed off A-cat mast with wood added to hold the spinnaker), but his mast is a 1-up only mast and I doubt it would withstand the added forces of twin wiring.

Fiberfoam makes an F20 sized carbon mast. Not cheap, but I am sure it would hold up to normal trap and spin use and abuse.

I'm sure Hall Spars could build you anything you want, as long as you can write the check. http://www.hallspars.com

Ben Hall races A Cats so I'm sure he can do it. Could any of you A cat guys tell us what a new Hall Mast costs? My guess would be about $3,000?

I believe the VM Blades that are being built today are fairly close to the F16 minimum weight (probably 3 to 5 kgs over min, just from a very short conversation). How much lighter is the carbon mast? Better to stay class legal, in my opinion.

1) UV damage (5.5 months a year) and durability.

Alu wins out big in this respect.

2) If it is an issue to have the mainsail cut to match the mast characteristics.

not a problem.

3) Getting a mast to the US if none made here.

expensive

4) Possible cost issues

carbon mast itself will be expensive as well. Think many thousants of dollars (3000-4000 US$)


Alu mast is often also alot easier to modify/repair up to the point of breaking the mast itself. Differences in overall mast weight is not expected to pass 9 lbs. So raising the mast unto the boat should not be that much different. By far most sail development has been done on the Alu rig, so it is fully expected that the new and young carbon rig will be of the same performance as the current alu rig. The carbon rig simply hasn't seen the same amount of devellopment to result in maximizing its potential. But even then the difference between the two are expected to be really small, indistinquisable in anything but very competitive racing in decent sized fleets. The carbon rig will need to get a custom mainsail and that will be more expensive then just getting the standard Dacron sails for the alu mast.

In my opinion the only true benefit (in your case) of carbon is the rightability. I'm not sure whether paying roughly 3500 to 4500 US$ more for that is attractive. Personally I didn't think this to be the case and so I decided to go for alu when I had to make the choice in early 2003. Now I'm 185-190 lbs so rightibility was never a question. Still if I were lighter then I think I would still have opted for the alu mast and right my boat with the aid of a waterbag. Thus keep that large chunck of money in my pocket or spend it on new sails some 3 to 5 years done the road (I'm racing my boat so I need new sails sooner then others)

Wouter

I didn't need much convincing to just stay with the alu mast. I was only thinking about carbon for the rightability. I just know I'm going to need help at 5'-7", 138 lbs on righting the boat when solo. I just wonder how much of a hassle using a water bag is going to be, especially when the boat comes up and it is wanting to take off and you are holding onto this sea anchor with one hand. Ideally, I want something that works quickly, and is not a hassle to use. I have to wonder if a righting pole is a viable solution or if I should just get use to throwing a water bag over the shoulder? Haven't tried either so I wouldn't mind some input.

You are a pretty small guy Jamie. Your expected future situation is out of the spectrum that I know personally (experience) or that I'm familiar with. I hope some others can help you.

I have no experience with righting poles.

Wouter

Jaime if I were you, I would not stress it too much. You will have plenty of time on my boat to get familiar with the rig and with what works.

When you read this, please give me a ring, I lost your number.

Robi

There was a thread going on about righting methods/aids not too long ago. The simplest/cheapest method was to pack a contractor bag/yard waste bag and use it by throwing it over a shoulder. I have not tried it, but I'll probably keep one handy. I'd be "GLAD" to have it . Especially, if you are right on the cusp of getting it righted without any aid (I am 150-155 and a little closer to righting it without aid than you are).

13 days.

I used the Solo Right which was made by Hobie Gary for my TheMightyHobie18 magnum. It was basically an oar with an adaptor to slide into the bottom of the dagger board slot. You would walk out on it and the boat would come right up. I only used it in testing sutuations but it worked very good. Gary used to have a video on his website of a 115lb girl righting a Mystere 6.0 by herself. He doesn't make them anymore but it was a very effective setup that could be easily replicated. He is on the forum also so you could ask him for further details.
I also have Rick's Power Righter on the Taipan but I haven't had the boat in the water yet to test it, hopefully this week. It is a very nice setup and I am sure it will work just as effectively. If you are unsure of being able to right your boat in any condition than I think it is good to have something like these two, even if you only use it in emergency situations. I also always carry a VHF radio, just in case....

Hey Robi,

From what I heard crews can also learn on your boat what DOESN'T work.

You still have this colour scheme on your hulls ? Graey Taino





Having said this, I'm sure that after attending Ricks seminar shortly these rumours will be just that, rumours.

Good luck