| Re: What is the BEST F18?????
[Re: Jake]
#67849 02/24/06 03:57 PM 02/24/06 03:57 PM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | Someone brought a good point. Have we really INCREASED the TOTAL number of sailors, or rather consolidated them into one or two classes?
Jay
| | | Hey guys, I had the most funny dream ...
[Re: bvining]
#67850 02/24/06 03:58 PM 02/24/06 03:58 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | Hey guys, I had the most funny dream.  I actually dreamed that Bill Vining was actually pushing the F16 angle in a catsailor post; (nightmere or wet dream ? you decide) How silly of me  , of course we all know that that would never ....  %@# DARN ! %^!@ !!! (rubbing my eyes!) Am I still asleep ! Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: What is the BEST F18?????
[Re: bvining]
#67851 02/24/06 04:07 PM 02/24/06 04:07 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe |
Now, I'm personally all for A-cat and F16 class growths but I have no illusions about the F18 being anything but the dominant class for many years to come; irrespectable of aspects like their overall weight.
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Hey guys, I had the most funny dream ...
[Re: Wouter]
#67852 02/24/06 04:14 PM 02/24/06 04:14 PM |
Joined: Oct 2002 Posts: 1,226 Atlanta bvining
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Posts: 1,226 Atlanta | Hey guys, I had the most funny dream.
I actually dreamed that Bill Vining was actually pushing the F16 angle in a catsailor post; (nightmere or wet dream ? you decide)
How silly of me , of course we all know that that would never ....
%@# DARN ! %^!@ !!! (rubbing my eyes!)
Am I still asleep !
Wouter Wouter has a sense of humor, who knew? | | | Re: What is the BEST F18?????
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#67853 02/24/06 04:24 PM 02/24/06 04:24 PM |
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,348 fin.
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Posts: 3,348 | Someone brought a good point. Have we really INCREASED the TOTAL number of sailors, or rather consolidated them into one or two classes? Consolidation is good. Are very large numbers even desirable? | | | Re: What is the BEST F18?????
[Re: fin.]
#67854 02/24/06 04:31 PM 02/24/06 04:31 PM |
Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 805 Gainesville, FL 32607 USA dacarls
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Posts: 805 Gainesville, FL 32607 USA | Consolidation vs new sailors? We want/need new people to pitch in, organize and run nice regattas!
Dacarls: A-class USA 196, USA 21, H18, H16 "Nothing that's any good works by itself. You got to make the damn thing work"- Thomas Edison
| | | Re: What is the BEST F18?????
[Re: dacarls]
#67855 02/24/06 04:53 PM 02/24/06 04:53 PM |
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,348 fin.
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Posts: 3,348 | Consolidation vs new sailors? We want/need new people to pitch in, organize and run nice regattas! Of course we need new people, but how many? I think the first regatta I ever attended had 300 boats! Personally, I think 25-40 boats is optimal. | | | Re: What is the BEST F18?????
[Re: fin.]
#67856 02/24/06 05:09 PM 02/24/06 05:09 PM |
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 _flatlander_
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Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 | Of course we need new people, but how many? I think the first regatta I ever attended had 300 boats!
Personally, I think 25-40 boats is optimal. This way out of character for me but here goes. Pete, what were you smoking back in those days? Are you going to pick the new people to "let in"? Hey, if there's "too many" boats, set up two courses. Should Rick and Mary not allow any new userid's unless they meet certain criteria? I hope I'm mis-understanding something here.
John H16, H14
| | | Re: What is the BEST F18?????
[Re: _flatlander_]
#67858 02/24/06 05:44 PM 02/24/06 05:44 PM |
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,348 fin.
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Posts: 3,348 | I hope I'm mis-understanding something here. I try to be succinct, that gets me in trouble!  You're not misunderstanding, I'm not explaining thoroughly. There are enough beach cats, at least here in Florida, to have a thriving sailing community, but we lack cohesiveness and coordination. No common goal. I hope we can work with the people we have, to develope a high quality beach sailing "culture?"- the old "Hobie way of life" philosophy, rather than worrying about dwindling numbers of participants. Sort of- "if you build it, they will come." The A cat/ F-16 phenomenon is the most hopeful and exciting thing I've seen in 15 years. Enough so that I'm willing to plunk down a fair piece of change to be able to participate! 300 boats would be wonderful, but to draw them we need to attract 25 or so on a regular basis. btw- 300 boats take over 1 mile of beach. btw x 2- before anyone asks, Lido Key (Sarasota) circa '76.
Last edited by Tikipete; 02/24/06 05:48 PM.
| | | Re: What is the BEST F18?????
[Re: Mary]
#67859 02/24/06 05:54 PM 02/24/06 05:54 PM |
Joined: Oct 2002 Posts: 192 WEST. MICH. USA DVL
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Posts: 192 WEST. MICH. USA | AMEN Mary,  The last really big regatta I remember was the Hobie Mega a few years back. I didn't make it but if they ever held one again.......... Personally I think the Formula classes are here to stay. I like the idea of the F-18s going on a diet over 10 years. There seems to be a lot of intrest in the F-16 due to the lightness and the fact that you can both single & double hand the boat. | | | Re: What is the BEST F18?????
[Re: Mary]
#67860 02/24/06 06:10 PM 02/24/06 06:10 PM |
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,348 fin.
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Posts: 3,348 | I wonder how many places there are in the U.S. now that can handle a 300-boat regatta. Lake Havasu? | | | Re: What is the BEST F18?????
[Re: Tornado699]
#67861 02/24/06 06:26 PM 02/24/06 06:26 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 337 Victoria, Australia C2 Mike
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Posts: 337 Victoria, Australia | What one to buy? Nacra? Hobie? Capricorn? As posted else where, There are really only 2 choices, the Tiger or Capricorn. Both are capable of winning and both are good all round boats. It then comes down to what competition you have in your area. The tiger does have the additional benifit of an established international class and fleets all round the world. Makes for 2 classes in 1 - something that the other boats are unable to offer at the moment. Tiger Mike | | | Re: What is the BEST F18?????
[Re: Mary]
#67862 02/24/06 06:28 PM 02/24/06 06:28 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 337 Victoria, Australia C2 Mike
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Posts: 337 Victoria, Australia | Isn't it the same as asking, "Who is the best F18 sailor?" Thats much easier to answer - Bundy!  Tiger Mike | | | Re: What is the BEST F18?????
[Re: Jalani]
#67863 02/24/06 06:31 PM 02/24/06 06:31 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 337 Victoria, Australia C2 Mike
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Posts: 337 Victoria, Australia | I have to say I am VERY disappointed in all of you. 12 hours in and noone has said anything particularly contentious - I think I'm going to ask for my money back on this one!  I could always just throw a little fuel on the fire with this statement from Nacra: "Nacra F18 Infusion. In Formula 18 racing, all producers have to try to top of the racing results and therefore on top of the market. All sailors know that Formula 18's are innovative racing machines and therefore will continue to change to meet the demands of the market.The Nacra Infusion is made with the latest production technology and hull design by a company famed for quality production. The Nacra Infusion is the most innovative sports catamaran on the World market. The Nacra Infusion is the only production catamaran that is made with infusion technology." OK - more popcorn, please! Now you mention it, the Infusion is definatly the go - so far it has won 100% of the regattas it has entered. What other manufacturer can claim that???? Tiger Mike | | | Re: What is the BEST F18?????
[Re: Tornado_ALIVE]
#67864 02/24/06 06:36 PM 02/24/06 06:36 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 337 Victoria, Australia C2 Mike
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Posts: 337 Victoria, Australia | As said before, the best F-18 is the one you are on...... However the fastest F-18 is the one that Bundy and Gashby are on  OK..... Hobie Tiger has won every F-18 Worlds with the exception of one. That was won by a Cirrus. Now (popcorn ready)..... A large part of Hobies success is because of the sailors on them.... They have taken the smart route by employing Olympic Tornado campaigners to race. With minimum cost to them they are riding the wave of Government and private sponnsor funded training and sailor development..... The Olympic pros are indead in a different league to other sailors and it was a very smart move on Hobies behalf to utalise them..... Other manufactures should take note. Now if you take out the top Tornado sailors from the results and then have another look....... Both the Tiger and Capricorn are very solid performers. With Booth and Bundy removed from the finishing results, the Capricorn was the next best placed boat in 3rd and a Capricorn was leading the event outright until it OCS in the last race and threw it away. This was also the Capricorn's 2nd Worlds after debuting at 5th in last years event...... Look out Tigers  The old NACRA...... well there is a reason why they updated the design.... The new boat is untested on an International level and will be interesting to see how it compares to the Capricorn and Tiger. I also believe the Flyer showed good pace at its first Worlds.... Have not heared much about it since. Hahahaha yes Steve, the Capricorn is odviously the best boat because we shouldn't count the first 2 boats because IMHO those sailors are too good! Thats like saying I would have won the football game last week except I missed the goal. Tiger Mike P.s. I prefer the M&M's over popcorn. | | | Re: What is the BEST F18?????
[Re: tshan]
#67865 02/24/06 06:48 PM 02/24/06 06:48 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 337 Victoria, Australia C2 Mike
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Posts: 337 Victoria, Australia | In order to stay current F18 really should consider a 10 year weight reduction program
Shouldn't we all? Humans, not boats. The obesity rate is out of control in the US (especially in the chitlins belt). Does anyone with the "inside F18" info think this could happen? I think it would have a positive effect. The weight issue was considered at the July 2004 World Council meeting and was rejected. To my knowledge there is no current push to lower the class weight. Tiger Mike | | | Re: What is the BEST F18?????
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#67866 02/24/06 06:57 PM 02/24/06 06:57 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 337 Victoria, Australia C2 Mike
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Posts: 337 Victoria, Australia | Someone brought a good point. Have we really INCREASED the TOTAL number of sailors, or rather consolidated them into one or two classes? Definatly not increased the total number of sailors in any measurable form. However! the class is not something a new sailor would want to learn on. You can sail with a novice cres but at the very least the helm needs to know what is going on or things get very wet very quickly. The real attraction is people looking at them on the beach and seeing them flying about in the bay. Impossible to say how many new sailors it brings to the sport into some of the feeder catagories. Tiger Mike | | |
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