Jerry,

It all dependents on the intended use of the boat and personal preferrence.

Most F18's and Tornado's use the cleat on mast setup now. The crew can stand up and pull harder/quicker on the halyard line. This is needed as alot of F18's have accellerated the uphaul halyard of the spi. Meaning the system is a 2:1, one meter pull on halyard raises the spi 2 meters. Most beam cleated systems I know have a 1:1 system. An additional advantage is that once the line is out of the cleat it can not recleat itself.

As a counter example : Most F16's are using the beam cleat setup for the simple reasons that that mast based cleat is very difficult to get to when you are singlehanding on the "wrong" side of the boat. This is something you really don't want. In my experience I pull the spi from either side of the boat often. Our club race manager keeps us on our toes this way. We sometimes do race the course the wrong way around or I have to gibe away at the mark to be clear of the other boats. In pure F18 races the course is always "all marks to port".

Wouter

Jerry,

It all dependents on the intended use of the boat and personal preferrence.

Most F18's and Tornado's use the cleat on mast setup now. The crew can stand up and pull harder/quicker on the halyard line. This is needed as alot of F18's have accellerated the uphaul halyard of the spi. Meaning the system is a 2:1, one meter pull on halyard raises the spi 2 meters. Most beam cleated systems I know have a 1:1 system. An additional advantage is that once the line is out of the cleat it can not recleat itself.

As a counter example : Most F16's are using the beam cleat setup for the simple reasons that that mast based cleat is very difficult to get to when you are singlehanding on the "wrong" side of the boat. This is something you really don't want. In my experience I pull the spi from either side of the boat often. Our club race manager keeps us on our toes this way. We sometimes do race the course the wrong way around or I have to gibe away at the mark to be clear of the other boats. In pure F18 races the course is always "all marks to port".

Wouter

Having the halyard cleat on the mast also allows the crew to face forward with their head up (toward the raising spinnaker and traffic) instead of being head down and unable to see anything else that is going on. I had crew recently say that they believe they prefer it on the main beam but after being exposed to that again, decided against it. We also run the halyard through a small block on the front beam so that it can be uncleated (from the inverted cleat on the head-banger on the mast) from anywhere on the boat with a simple tug.

The infusion looks like it is coming with the swivel head cleat mount on the leading edge of the mast so it can be accessed from either side. Personally, I don't think I would like the wrap you get around the mast if hoisting from the opposite side but I haven't tried it or seen it in action.

Thats interesting- I hadn't thought of that but it certainly would cut down on the line re-cleating as you are pulling on the snuff line. However, have you had problems with the line coming uncleated accidentally?

This is standard set up on the Capricorn....... When the Ronstan cleat wore out (rather quickly) and the halyard sliped out of the cleat a few times we went back to the double cleat. Added a Harken cleat, but believe that just replacing the Ronstan cleat with a good Harken one would be fine.

Another point to consider is your crew's upper body strength.

If the cleat or hoist point is on the tramp or beam then they can use their legs to grind the halyard up the last bit.... If it's on the mast then you are using your upper body strength.

Also, you have an experience factor of the crew keeping their feet while standing up to hoist the chute. Inexperienced crews can always hoist the chute from their knees with it on the beam or tramp.

Hey guys, thanks for the tradeoffs on mainbeam vs mast cleating. Sounds like mainbeam cleating is better for singlehanding since you wouldn't be standing up in that case! The 1:2 purchase for faster hoists does sound pretty nifty, though. Anyone using that on F16's for singlehanding so you can use two hands for a shorter period of time?

Jerry

I had a 1:6 On my hurricane 5.9; The kite went up sooooooo quick !

with these reverse purchase systems, do you have to rig up a separate snuffer line or can you keep the halyard/snuffer continuous?

Any photos or diagrams? How hard was it to pull since I assume you get mechanical "disadvantage."

This was an old bag kite and we were working out ways to speed things up.

We had triple block mounted on the front beam and a free moving triple on the tramp.

The uphaul went from the head of the kite, around the block on the mast above the hounds, down to a turn block on the Spi pole and thru a cleat on the front beam (as per normal).


Then the uphaul went to the free floating triple block on the tramp then to the triple on the front beam and back and forth. You now have the uphaul wound around the block system.

From the free floating block on the tramp we then ran a sheet line from the back of this block to a turn block on the back beam - we now have a 1:6 uphaul.

For each inch the free floating block moves(via sheet line on the back and turn block on the back beam), 6 inches of uphaul is pulled.

We had a seperate downhaul (Called a crew) who re-stuffed it in the bag.

We also ran some shock cord to the back beam so that the uphaul went around floating block correctly.

So when the kite was fully down and bagged, we had the floating triple near the front beam, when the kite was up, we had the floating triple at the back beam and about 2m of (1:6) uphaul floating around the tramp.

It worked very well as the kite went up very quickly and if need be you still had 1:1 for the last little bit as the 1:6 was after the cleat.

Drops were also fine as (again) if need be we still had 1:1.



If using a pole mounted bag, you would need either a seperate downhaul or somesort of pump system.

I hate to admit, but I would tend to agree with Wouter (for the first time) that is a bit vague statement to make during offseason. Seeing results would be nice because then you could see who the sailors were and get a better idea that way.

Not that it matters, the speed differences between the boats are so small that it really boils down to the sailors. The reason I'm going with the Cap is that I'm hoping it will help make me a better sailor.

On another note...
I'm very impressed that AHPC is moving the mast rotation arm down to the bottom of the mast for us. I have found it somewhat inaccurate on the boom when the main blocks are attached to the sail. The boom rotates too much and never seems to be quite the same from one tack to the other.

After the first time, it does not hurt so much!!! Will we see you this weekend at GYC? You're in Clearwater, right?

Yeah, we're in Clearwater, but we still won't make it to GYC. We're in the middle of a Tornado training camp in Dunedin with another team and have a third boat arriving on Saturday.

One of these days we'll get there...

Sheesh.

Wouter, Rolf and Olli -



I'm told by those involved that the Infusions have been undergoing tuned racing and straight-line speed tests against Capricorns and Tigers in Holland. They will be competing in an open regatta this weekend on an inland lake where Capricorns are expected. I'll do my best to find you three some results to sink your teeth into.

The tuned racing is being done with some pretty well-known cat racers over there - they can pipe up if they feel like it. They rotate boats and play with tuning to see what works and what doesn't.

It really shouldn't be a surprise that this sort of thing is done - in fact the skepticism is the only thing that surprises me.

As for me, to get back ON TOPIC - I'm only a month away from a new boat and I can't wait. I sat on my trailer today, patted it and said, "Soon, my shiny aluminum beauty... sooooon."

What are the odds that Kukla Fran and Oli cross cultural lines?...

Damn... we are old farts!

PS John... I am worried... go sail ANYTHING soon.... even a lead mine.... If that trailer spoke to you.... it could get ugly!

Mark

Yeah, come over to pensacola (again) and tech me some stuff on my boat... I'll even let you talk to it (she's sort of stubborn though, so be careful)

<******** alert" was about.


Wouter

Wouter, all the Performance Cat people and other sailors I know from your area, or even Europe as a whole, don't have a freakin' clue who you are at all. What races do you attend that people would know you from? Nothing personal, but I don't think what you say holds any water at all...

So, Wouter, your assertion here and in your PM to me just now is that these folks that have sailed the boat "under your nose" as you put it are completely fabricating the whole thing.

Whelp... *throws hands up* There's nothing more I have to offer you, mate. Believe it or not. I'm beyond caring. I suppose that there is a chance four different people in different parts of the world independently had the same delusion, which was then related to me. If you can just pick up the phone as you say, then by all means, give Gunnar my regards and tell him to lay off the hallucinogens. Then call Jack and offer him a weekend off - bet he takes it.

I can't believe I'm even arguing about this...

Ciao