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Re: safety and tuning [Re: catmech] #70479
03/28/06 02:14 PM
03/28/06 02:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
veteran
Jalani  Offline
veteran

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
The tail of your mainsheet should be tied onto the traveller control line. That way you don't have an end that will fall into the water. You will have a length of sheet that will want to drag in the water, but because it's attached at both ends it's easy to lob it back onto the tramp if it washes off.


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: safety and tuning [Re: Jalani] #70480
03/28/06 02:29 PM
03/28/06 02:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
K
ksurfer2 Offline
old hand
ksurfer2  Offline
old hand
K

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl
I have only been sailing for a short time on my 6.0 with the shute. I have gained a lot of confidence with this recently, but the hardest thing to get through my head was the uncleating of the traveler to ease it. When uncleating the mainsheet, it is a downward flip of the sheet to uncleat it, but with the traveler it is an upward flip of the sheet. There were a few panic situations that arose from this confusion, but no capsizes (yet). Good luck with your shute, once you get comfortable with it, you'll wonder why you ever sailed without it!


If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
Re: safety and tuning [Re: ksurfer2] #70481
03/28/06 07:54 PM
03/28/06 07:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
veteran
Tornado  Offline
veteran

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Go over the entire front of the boat to locate & tape off snag/tear points for the Spinny. I even tape off the mast hounds & shroud attachment flange. I like to use the new type of weather-proof duct tape...transparent, doesn't distintegrate over a few weeks outdoors like the old grey stuff and doesn't leave a horrible goo after removal. Made by 3M.

Other advice is to not over tension the halyard. A year ago at the Tornado Nats in Houston, the advice was to set the pole tip such that you could grab the spinny luff and rotate your closed fist through 90 degrees (from near vertical to horizontal) before the sail stopped you. Then at the last big T event end of January, all the top guys had switched to setting the halyard quite a bit tighter than this...so you could only do about 10 degrees of fist rotation. Much more tension and you stretch out the luff quickly.

What are others doing here?

Mike.

Last edited by Tornado; 03/28/06 07:56 PM.

Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: safety and tuning [Re: Tornado] #70482
03/28/06 10:35 PM
03/28/06 10:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
flumpmaster Offline
addict
flumpmaster  Offline
addict

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
Quote
Go over the entire front of the boat to locate & tape off snag/tear points for the Spinny. I even tape off the mast hounds & shroud attachment flange. I like to use the new type of weather-proof duct tape...transparent, doesn't distintegrate over a few weeks outdoors like the old grey stuff and doesn't leave a horrible goo after removal. Made by 3M.

Other advice is to not over tension the halyard. A year ago at the Tornado Nats in Houston, the advice was to set the pole tip such that you could grab the spinny luff and rotate your closed fist through 90 degrees (from near vertical to horizontal) before the sail stopped you. Then at the last big T event end of January, all the top guys had switched to setting the halyard quite a bit tighter than this...so you could only do about 10 degrees of fist rotation. Much more tension and you stretch out the luff quickly.

What are others doing here?

Mike.


'bout 45 degrees on the Tiger - easing out the tack a fraction if we overstand or need to reach.

Chris.


Dave Ingram is my president. tcdyc rules
Re: safety and tuning [Re: Tornado] #70483
03/29/06 03:41 AM
03/29/06 03:41 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Mike,

I always liked the shape and performance with a tighter luff than the "standard" 90degrees turn. 5cm slack has been my setup for the last two years.
This will probably vary a lot between different classes tough.

Re: safety and tuning [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #70484
03/29/06 09:33 AM
03/29/06 09:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
While Sailing the I20 last weekend with a mainsheet that was considerably too long (it wasn't my boat so I wasn't about to start chopping lines), I handed the sheet to David after just assuming the lead, tacking, and popping out on the wire. David went to sheet it in and realized we had an issue. The slack had dropped in the water and wrapped around the windward rudder. We tried flying a hull and everything and couldn't get it to come free. David finally had to go in and raise the rudder because we wouldn't have been able to tack otherwise.

The mainsheet should be long enough that the crew can run it from the trapeze while the skipper hangs on to the traveler leaving two to three feet of slack between them.


Jake Kohl
Re: safety and tuning [Re: Jake] #70485
03/29/06 09:44 AM
03/29/06 09:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
Again, thanks to all you guys. I'm thinking about collating this thread into a handy "how-to" notebook.

But, I'm gonna be doin' this solo! Can anybody help with that?

Re: safety and tuning [Re: fin.] #70486
03/29/06 10:00 AM
03/29/06 10:00 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
Pete-
I'll fall off the boat in the middle of the Hogsbreath and that will be your chance to learn it all..

Re: safety and tuning [Re: PTP] #70487
03/29/06 09:04 PM
03/29/06 09:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 186
rbj Offline
member
rbj  Offline
member

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 186
Some great input here for those of us new to the spi.
A few quick clarifications:
1) Easing DH prior to spi hoist: fully or partially ease? Is this in fact to reduce mast compression or to effect sail shape?
2) Playing traveller in gusts: are you dumping the traveller in gusts to spill air (this is what I have always assumed) or are you sheeting harder to stall the sail (which I doubt since I assume the sail is already stalled)?
3) Avoiding spi tears on sharpies: does anyone make plastic snap on covers for split rings so you don't need to tape them? If so, who sells them?

Re: safety and tuning [Re: rbj] #70488
03/29/06 11:14 PM
03/29/06 11:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Dan_Delave Offline
old hand
Dan_Delave  Offline
old hand

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Rounding mark and setting the chute.

Crew's job.
Ease jib a bit before coming in from trapeze.
Hoist spinnaker while rounding mark.
Call when chute is up.
Sheet the sail.
Let off on downhaul. Ours only goes out so far as it is preloaded.
Get back out on wire.

Skipper's job
Stay on trapeze until mark is rounded.
Come in from trapeze ease the mainsheet just a bit.
Travel down the main.
Head downwind so the spinnaker can go up quickly.
Ease off on the rotation.
Travel the main up as the spinnaker gets sheeted in.
Get the windward hull in the air.
Hang on to the traveller and ease if there is a problem.
Keep main sheeted in rather tight.

That is about what we do.

Later,
Dan

Re: safety and tuning [Re: fin.] #70489
03/30/06 01:26 AM
03/30/06 01:26 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 425
Toledo, Ohio (western end of ...
Mike Fahle Offline
addict
Mike Fahle  Offline
addict

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 425
Toledo, Ohio (western end of ...
One of the best ways to climb the learning curve quickly is to go lawn sailing before you hit the water. You can practice and make common mistakes w/o getting wet and running over the spinnaker. If you have spectaters let them hold the boat down if it wants to scoot along the grass. If the wind is lighter then just your weight on the boat will suffice. We have sometimes gone trailer sailing but clear the parking lot first! Better to put the boat on the grass and secure it whatever way is best for you.

You can make big mistakes this way and then get out of the boat and check it out very quickly and easily. Did a big lump keep the spinnaker from going into the snuffer? Walk over and see why as you hand snuff it. Did the spinnaker fall down in front of the hull before it went into the snuffer? If so, on the water that would have been a shrimping experience and probably would have ripped the spinnaker and maybe caused a capsize. You can practice different methods of launching and retrieval on the lawn till it looks good and seems to work well before adding the complexity of water. With a new crew you can quickly develop timing and coordination.

By yourself: You want the spinnaker to go up and come down as quickly as possible so that means using both hands and arms swinging through big arcs to get the halyard up or down fast. You can steer with whatever body part works best for you in the given conditions. In lighter air and/or smoother water, I often stand up (bent over) and hoist while steering with one leg against the tiller connecter. If it is a little rougher I will just kneel and steer with my butt or back leg against the bar. I need only about 5 - 10 seconds to do this and I count the number of pulls I make so that I know when it is there which is what you can do when you practice.

A very common newbie mistake is to bear off on the takedown and let the spinnaker sheet go before snuffing. This allows the spinnaker to get in front of the hull and then run over before you can get it sucked into the snuffer and/or the sheet gets inside the leeward hull, sometimes to the point that it gets wrapped around the rudder. This is always a lot of fun to straighten out by yourself on the water especially if it is breezy and bouncy. At least it is fun for any spectators! You can avoid this by keeping something on the sheet like a leg cleat, foot cleat, butt cleat, etc. You ease off once the sail is in the snuffer and the sheet is prventing further progress.

If you capsize then it is important to snuff the spinnaker any way you want before trying to right the boat. A wet spinnaker at the top of the mast will resist nearly any righting force, even a buoy tender at full throttle if the cat and kite is big enough (another thread).

The common newbie trimming mistake is to undersheet the spinnaker and sail too deep and slow. Trim it out till the luff breaks and then sheet it back in just enough to pull the fold out of the luff and then head up a little until the luff folds over again and then repeat until you are going as fast as you want or can handle. Feel free to move the helm a lot as once you get good at this with that size boat you can just cleat the sheet and sail just by steering unless it is very puffy and/or shifty. Normally it is fastest and most interesting to sheet some and steer some in a coordinated way which tiller time will make clear. The payoff is one of the most enjoyable cat sailing treats; flying a hull off the wind under spinnaker.

You should be good enough by the end of the season that you will have new neural pathways developed that make thinking nearly unnecessary while doing this!

Re: safety and tuning [Re: PTP] #70490
03/30/06 06:55 AM
03/30/06 06:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
Quote
Pete-
I'll fall off the boat in the middle of the Hogsbreath and that will be your chance to learn it all..


I hope someone gets pix!

Mike. Thank you. Clearly you put a lot of effort into that last post. It will take some time to digest. I appreciate it.

". . .trailer sailing. . ."

Last edited by Tikipete; 03/30/06 07:08 AM.
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