For availability, that would have to be worked out with Aquarius, but if a new boat is designed the availability issue doesn't go away. I would think it would be easier to get more boats from Aquarius than to ramp up a new production line. The SC-22 is a powerful boat - I would say that the thing to do, either with the 22 or any new spec boat is to provide for either a way to reef the main or have an optional reduced size main for heavy air. Alternatively, I'm sure Bill Roberts would work with you to design a "more reasonable" rig for a spec series - still a better route than to design from scratch.



The 22 in our Fleet has seen lots of different conditions, it's even seen a micro-burst on the beach before the C-100 2 years back (hit by a flying 5.8 if I remember right), no broken mast... It is a fast and serious boat, but not out of control from what I've seen.



I think the 22 would be a great boat for a spec pro series capable of drawing sponsorship and viewer interest. Just my guess...

The sc 22 is a great boat I agree. We have had some talk about drawing up a formula where the sc22 would be in the formula but allowing different boat builders to build spec boats from various designs. Sort of like the America's cup. But, then you open the door to unlimited spending. The other thought is how much money do you want to spend on a boat that does the exact same thing as a boat 30% cheaper?



I'm looking at the A class historically to really see what happens because I believe that their formula works and could be used as a blueprint for any "new" formula series.



What are your guys thoughts on a F-22? Carl, I'm going to tell you this the weight minimum will be set by a committee of 3 naval architects and will be adjusted every 5 years.



Not a jab at Carl we've just debated boat weights/crew weighs for almost a year.



Steve

-Definately the way to Go for a sponsored Prosail type series,

F-22 -basic A-Class type box rule as a basis,set LENGTH BEAM SAIL AREA and BOAT WEIGHT ,add F-22 CLASS rules ONLY as needed, state the intent AS PRIORITY.



-The Arc 22 is available with lighter carbon fiber componants I believe ,-crossbeams , spin pole,- boom, -also I,m sure masts are available to further reduce boat weight. Masts or a c f top section does the most good in terms of increasing speed potential ,but is the one most expensive by far ,-I hope an enterprizing sail maker +carbon mast Co. will offer a C F replacement comptip for H {half the weight } and offer a mast +193 sq ft main with a really nice spin snuffer package upgrade .

These are also good ways to reduce boat weight on any cat design {c f spin pole and boom }along with other simple modifications ,-lighter simple rmainsheet blocks and lines ,-lighter halyard lines ,-especially long spin sheet lines . to reduce as much as 10 to 20 or more lbs all together.

Other things beyond Steve's baking proceedure described is to simpley eliminate all excess fiberglass inside and out on hulls by grinding and sanding out the interiors and sanding down and refinishing the exterior as we have seen a number of 6/0 owners do over the years, some reportedly weighing less than 400 lbs when RECONSTRUCTED AND REFINISHED , an ideal retrofit project for all the numerous existing 20s that are available , some for as little as 2 or 3 thou with a trailer , or start on the existing boat already purchased years ago and rebuild it for new exciting 20 class racing better than its original with new hull colors main and spin theme or sponsors logos.

Basic spin -snuffer packages are around 1600,-as posted earlier , refinishing is not a major expence, a mast {optional }and or main may be the single most expence, but all racing boats must replace sails periodically to remain competitive , F-opens up selection and price comparison to keep these reasonable .



Hope this is helpfull

Carl

Sounds like you've had the same problem we have in looking for a boat camera. While I am only an amateur, and have no interest in producing, I am looking for some waterproof equipment for footage to convince my friends that I'm not as sane as they may think. There are waterproof bullet cameras out there, but the recording equipment isn't waterproof, so unless the recorder is in a waterproof bag inside a hull or something, it's toast.

The Sony Viewman (or whatever) seems the most compact recorder that can be used with those waterproof bullet cams. Perhaps this has potential, or was that the setup that was destroyed on Cat Fever? Also, should you be looking to test any equipment, contact team Fully Involved, as Les has managed to break parts on boats that no one has ever managed to break. If it survives his test, it can survive anything!

Like the idea of a non one design event. In order for the race to last it is imparitive that you get a reasonable turnout the first year and it gets coverage from media and a positive story coming from the people who sail it. Nothing gets me to an event faster than some of my friends telling me how great it was last year. As far as a strict F-20 rule set...I think you should wait a couple of years. I have read the NE 6.0 fleet has adopted a standard chute that would be too big. Are you going to discourage them by forcing them to buy another $1200 sail when they just bought one? Participation is more important than a rule set at this point. For the first year put on a safe and exciting race..fine tune it when it catches on.

THANKS N-269



good comments , agree , and some other solutions are also available to include existing class oriented 20s .



First , evan in so called mfg.one design classes huge variations occur ,-we all know boat weights are all over the scale dependant largely on what time of year hulls were set up and what mix was used and how precised or sloppy the guys were that day . Variations in sails do occur, ask any knowledgable active racing sailor in any class.

In the I-20 class as with all others variations updates and changes occur periodically.



Shute prices are generally in the 800 to 900 range for the 270 sq ft spins. ,965 for the 348 sq ft E coast Smyth spin,- with snuffer package 1600 as previously listed in posts,--good used spins can be 400.



Dispensation is available to 20 owners that wish to keep existing older class specs like standard smaller mainsail ,-heavier mast and rig and total boat weight per strict class rules, ,per owners request in classes like the Nacra and Hobie 20 for example and may be allowed a design trade off of added spin area again keeping other aspects of this older class in tact for economic and other reasons they may have , it is possible to accomodate them .



My feeling is the 6/0 would be as fast with the 300 sq ft shute for 410 lb and above cats already in the F-20 rule , and certainly be much faster with a mast , mainsail , jib upgrade on the basic Nacra platform than the N E version w 348 sq ft shute with 6/0 N A class sails . the only mod used along with spin snuffer and hardware package is lengthened stays to the forward foil and spin pole.

Understand Steve and Kenny {team Tybee}plan to race Ricks {Follow the Yellow 6/0 } in this years N E 100 along with numerous other excellent 6/0 sailors with the N E set up , HOPEFULLY we will have a number of similarly skilled Inter 20 entrants to have a real life test lab to see if this match up is evan and fair through a variety of conditions over this distance and two day event.

Unsure presently of how they compare when they are raced locally in the same start round the cans , Raced in the Spring Fever with 6/0s ht 18s , Formula 18s and others on the course ,but flucky conditions did not make for an accurate comparison , though did often see Rick close by and seems very close in speed potential for those brief times .Dave and I won in the Inter 20 class .

Other similar heavier boat rig and smaller main existing classes , Hobie ,Mystere etc would be allowed the same type of dispensation if owners request it.

Should be interesting .



The other option discussed for the Tybee race was using similar rated boats and just starting them at the same time ,-run what ya brung ,-The problem here is the pandoras box of diverse design variations making design the winning factor . -a 450 sq ft shute as used in the 98 Worrell would appear and other mast head types along with reacher hooter types , larger beam lighter weight boats , etc through the list .As Matt showed in recent distance racing the well sailed Tornado with larger beam and added ft lbs of righting moment would walk away any time the wind was 10 or over just as it did for Olympic selection boat trials against all 8.5 beam cat designs . It no longer is a test of sailing tactical navagation and seamanship skills on reasonabley equal boats .







Carl

I think the secret is lipstick cams with a camcorder inside a waterproof or water resistant housing tucked into a hull. Wireless cameras are also an option, but there's more to fail and the cost per system would probably be higher. Todd trashed the first case when he capsized and it had to be cut out of the rigging. The second one, with the camera inside, flooded when it got caught under a board and got towed at 18 knots. I'll keep Les in mind for our tests. Anyone with any suggestions or who knows of gear out there that might work, please contact us.



Robert Feldman

Steve,



1. great tip.

2. the key is the temperature,..correct?,.....so If we had access to a auto paint shop over the weekend,...that would do the trick?

3. In the Caribbean sun and heat,..the wax products melt off,...but I never used the product you mentioned,....what do you think,...would the equatorial sun 'get it' soft?



Bruce

St. Croix

I-17

Bob,



A paint booth would work as long as you have great airflow through the hulls. Your not trying to bake the gelcoat but cook the composite.



The wax I use held up for an entire Florida summer! So I think it would work down Island.



One thing that you want to know both of my boats have two ports a hull one forward and one aft. Between the beam and the daggar trunk and aft of the rear beam.



I tried a fan up in to the hull once but didn't see any real difference you might in a paint booth since the heat is from lamps versus a radiant source.



Steve

Actually the Tybee race has been discussed the last few years , Chuck this year desided it is time . My understanding is the new one week distance race from the Keys to Tybee Island will not conflict with the Worrell and catsailors could do both races .

The race is in the planning stages for next year , -Issues and numerous people are being asked to partisipate and help organize ,--race officials and staff ,--sponsors ,--hotels ,municipalitities , towns ,permits required , measurement and rules ,,Coast Guard notification ,insurances , requirements and sailing resumes of teams, --recomendations from teams themselves, -safety inspection and equipement , --boats charters and parts supply availability,--RACE SPONSORS ,--movie video and filming the race ,--great coverage and race web site here on CATSAILOR ,-among other aspects to organize,-sure the checkpoints and dates will be posted .



Hope to see other similar races on the East Coast -West Coast , Mid West , and Gulf area.

in the future.



there is also a discussion on the new open forum though more of a rules oriented one ,--hope others will contact team Tybee and volunteer ,assist ,fill needed list of good people needed to make a race of this magnitude a success and send in suggestions and help www.teamtybee.com



sail safe this season

Carl