Hello, I'm new to this forum, and I've been loooking for the answers to some of my questions about the H16 I bought recently.

First of all;
Does anyone have any tips on preventing a pitchpole in heavy winds when sailing downwind, I recently experienced this most unfortunate event and was taken back by how easily the boat seemed to flip?

Also;
I have old style jib cars with a micro fiddle block leading to an upside-down cam cleat, and it is nearly impossible for both my crewmate and I to uncleat the jib from anywhere on the boat besides climbing across the tramp to let out the jib. I was advised by a dealer to replace the cars with the new style with the eyelet and cam attached, but is there anyway to fix this problem?

Thirdly;
Performance-wise, is there a difference in the type of mainsheet block system used on the H16? When I bought the boat, it came with a 4:1 set probably for a H14, is it recommended to ugrade to a 6:1 or even 8:1, if so, where should i buy from?

Lastly;
Would anyone recommend installing a boom vang on the H16? On my boom, about 2 ft from the mast, there is a steel chainplate which looks like it could be used for a vang system, although I have never seen an H16 with a vang, would it be useful to put one in, and is it class-legal?

~Thank you in advance for your time and patience.

Pitch pole – Move the crew and skipper to the rear of the boat to keep the bows up. It may require one of you to trap out depending on wind and boat speed.

Jib cars – Take a look at
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...ew=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
Scroll down to the fifth message and look at the drawing. I used the system on two boats.

Main blocks – 6:1 is what you need. Take a look at
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...ew=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
For a good discussion.

Vang – The older boats did come equipped with the piece on the boom for a vang. I believe Hobie finally removed them because no one used them.

Vinny,

I too dealt with most of your concerns.

First (the jib cars). It sounds like you have the old Seaway cars (like I did). They cleat easily with an upward pull and uncleat (ya right) with a downward snap. The problem is, the whole cleat moves on the spring and the process is difficult, to say the least - more like damn near impossible. I tried a few modifications with little success. Those cars are simply a flawed design. I replaced them with these (Hobie part #1075 - I think CatSailor sells them too)and I love them. http://www.hobiecat.com/support/pdfs/34_35.pdf


Pitchpole/capsize. This problem is a little trickier because the H16 is so over-powered to begin with. But that is what makes the boat so fun and exciting. Certainly your weight distribution and technique is the real secret. However, I converted to a roller furling jib which allows me to reduce sail power quickly and easily - especially solo - both when the wind is too high, or when approaching a boat launch. I would highly recommend this upgrade and have zero regrets on its purchase.


4:1 blocks? You better change those before you rip your bicept from its insertion!


Hope this helps

Dave

hey Dave, thanks for the advice on the jib cars, pitchpoling, and mainsheet system. I understand what you mean with the cleat being attached to the spring and that makes sense, I will be replacing those cars with the style from Hobie.
Also, I do have a new Harken roller furler installed and I didnt think about reducing the power by furling in the jib in heavy winds.
While on the subject of heavy winds, is it possible to reef the mainsail? I was looking at the gooseneck, and it doesnt look like it would stay up on the mast without the sail fully raised.

thanks

Shortly after getting my 1988 H16, I also went through the pitchpole initiation and immediately decided that I didn't want to do that anymore. After some research, I decided I needed to rake the mast back and that has seemed to help quite a bit. To do this, I ordered a pair of modern shrouds (shorter than OEM, for 1988 at least) and added a bridle chain plate to make up for the gap in the forestay. Of course, solving this has created its own problems: excessive weather helm, the need to switch to low profile jib blocks etc. But hey, you need new job blocks anyways, right?

I also recently went to the #1075 blocks (see Hobie Accessories Catalog) and agree that they are GREAT. The cleating action on them is so effortless and smooth that I am now eyeing all of the other cam cleats on the boat.

I just replaced my Mainsheet system last weekend from the original Seaway blocks that measured about 18" center to center when pulled in block to block with

44 feet of Maffioli Swiftcord 9MM

and

one each

http://mauriprosailing.com/Merchant...AR2630&Category_Code=57MMRATCHMATICS

And

http://mauriprosailing.com/Merchant...duct_Code=HAR2605&Category_Code=57MM

which measures about 6" Center to Center when block to block

I can not stress how much better these blocks are, and the sheet is awsome as well. The whole system is a bit expensive, but very much worth the money.

Thanks to everybody that gave input on the MainSheet Blocks thread a few weeks ago.

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=all

see ya on the water.

Sam

What were you thinking man!

I only checked your first purchase, and you paid $4 more for it compared to the CAT SAILOR store, right here...they gave you this wonderful venue.

web page

Vinny,

You asked about reefing. Your boat must be an older boat to have the older style jib cars and cleats. Has it been retrofitted with a Comptip mast? My boat, an '85, does not have it, and the original sail had a reef point as well as a second "slug" on the halyard. That allowed the sail to be lowered to put in the reef. That second "slug" necessitated a longer wire on the end of the halyard. The Comptip mast is designed to protect you from electric wires hitting the top of the mast and travelling down to you. They apparently did away with the long wire on the halyard which would also transmit the electricity and along with it they did away with the reef point. I put in a reef once and didn't find any advantage to it. I never changed to the Comptip mast and still have the original halyard but my replacement sail has no reef point.

If your sail can be reefed, there would be no problem with the gooseneck. It would still go in the same location and be tied down with the downhaul.

Howard

I've reefed the main on a 16 twice in 25 years, so I'm no expert but...do not put any tension on your downhaul line. Let the gooseneck set "idle" in the mast track. Downhaul, in effect, is a depowering device. You've acheived that by reducing (reefing) the Main. The dacron cloth around those reefing grommets is not going to like much tension from a cranked on downhaul. I'd set the downhaul snug, no more.

Yes, though my boat is a 79, the previous owner kept it in very good condition and did change the mast to comptip. The only problem I had while experimenting with reefing was the the track for the gooseneck goes down to the base of the mast, and whenever I try to reef the sail, the gooseneck just slides all the way down to the base of the mast. I a still trying to figure out if there is anyway I could prevent that, or even if reefing is necessary.

Vinny,

If you have a comptip mast then you must have the new halyard with just one "slug" to latch on the top of the mast. That slug is what will keep your gooseneck from going down. You can't reef if you don't have the second "slug". I don't reef and obviously no one with newer boats even has any reef points. The idea of a furling jib sounds the best to depower.

Howard

Vinny,

As Howard stated the original "non comp-tip" mast had an all wire halyard with a second "slug" to secure the main at the reefing height. Your new comp-tip halyard (which is yacht line past the "only slug") does not have this feature, as newer sails do not have the reefing grommets.

The two times I reefed were in winds above 35 mph (two up) and above 25 mph (one up & cold water). No, it's not really necessary, we had the option and used it. In both cases we would have been better off to pack up and go home.

I think reefing can sometimes come in handy for recreational sailors who like to day-cruise. For instance, you sail to an island for a picnic lunch and the wind picks up to an uncomfortable level for sailing home.

John,

I really wanted to buy this stuff from Catsailor but, when you go part number for part number there is a huge difference. what you compared were a triple cam no ratchet to what I bought triple cam ratchmatic Huge difference.



______

http://mauriprosailing.com/Merchant2/mer...57MMRATCHMATICS

http://store.catsailor.com/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=jmmrephmr8
________

http://mauriprosailing.com/Merchant2/mer...egory_Code=57MM

http://store.catsailor.com/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=jmmqhqerg4

Again, Sorry for spending my money on a different site but it really did not make since to purchase this hardware here. I do not know why they can sell it so cheap but they do.

I guess I could have asked them to match pricing, but did not think of that. Sorry Rick especialy after you confirmed that these were the blocks to buy.

Sam

Ok, it took me a while to figure out what the "slug" was, but I understand now that the comptip mast halyard is part wire and part line. I am assuming that by reefing the main, the section of the halyard I would have to cleat off would be the wire.

Also, after further review, (and a dinner-table discussion with my father) I have decided that it would indeed be much easier to reduce sail area and power just by furling the jib before sailing directly down-wind in heavy winds. This does allow a more immediate adjustment and a larger difference in sail area.

-Thanks to all for your help
By the way, what is the deal with the HUGE price difference between Mauri Pro sailing and Catsailor. Even when you compare Catsailor to APS, there is still a difference.

http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d75000/e73797.asp

Freedom of speech is a wonder thing.., and I am all for it. However, I am bothered that you guys come on to a FREE Forum and tell folks to shop elsewhere.

You seem to intimate that we are price gouging. The prices we use are retail prices. When we got together with our suppliers we agreed to not discount. They were afraid their brick and mortar dealers would suffer if we did.

However, the prices you are quoting are lower than my costs. Our store has to make a profit to survive. And it has to make a profit to provide all the FREE stuff YOU get on this website, for example:
1) This Free Forum where you pass the word to shop elsewhere
2) Free Email
3) Fee Photo Album area
4) Free Calendar
5) Free Links to over 3000 websites of all kinds
6) Free Hot news on events from all over
7) Free streaming video of events (on a daily basis for the Tybee 500)
8) Free Forums for special interest groups (like the Hobie14/16 Forum)
9) Very inexpensive Classified Ads

And the list goes on. Do any of those others cited do anything for you.

Please note I did not delete your posts despite the fact I know they will hurt the very business that allows you to post freely almost anything you want to say.

It is so nice that you all appreciate what Mary and I do for this sport.., like send folks elsewhere!!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Thanks,
Rick

Rick,

Again, I apologize for the links to other sites.

I Will NOT do that AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!

Sam Swari

PS - Please feel free to remove the links, just note that the part number are very much different.

Yes, Rick,
I do apologize for posting the links for the other sites, I must admit I did not think about the consequences Catsailor would suffer from. I will not be posting links to other site again. Also, I would not feel offended if you removed the links, I now understand why you were perturbed.

Bear off in the puff, if you are almost dead downwind and still on the edge of controll over trim the main to reduce projected area.



The newer gear works great.



Go with 6:1 it works and you will have more fun with the boat.



It is class legal but don't bother. Your crew will thank you.

I understand about bearing off when overpowered, but I have tried over-trimming the main while downwind in heavy winds (excess of 35knot puffs) and it appeared that the boat wanted to bury the lee bow into the waves. When I let out the main to its full extent while on a dead run (+/- a few degrees), the windward bow began to submerge. I was a bit confused about this and am wondering if this is normal and/or practical?