| Multihulls in the America's Cup #76554 06/01/06 12:03 AM 06/01/06 12:03 AM |
Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 917 Issaquah, WA, USA H17cat OP
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Posts: 917 Issaquah, WA, USA | See the following from Scuttlebutt. SCUTTLEBUTT 2106 - June 1, 2006 ( http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com) Scuttlebutt is a digest of major yacht racing news, commentary, opinions, features and dock talk . . . with a North American focus. GUEST EDITORIAL -- Bill Lee It is clearly time for the America's Cup to be raced in multihulls. If The Cup is to include technology, it should be real breakthrough advancement, not just trying to make the basic leadmine go 0.1 knots faster. If is often argued that heavily ballasted boats are good for The Cup because they can't squirt away from each other in a local puff, Instead they will remain close and the racing will be tactical and exciting. In reality, with the current boats and format, once one boat wins the start, the lead seldom changes and the racing is rather boring. If keeping the boats closer together is an objective, a far more effective approach is to have much shorter races and many more of them. An afternoon of racing should be the best 5 out of 9 with 15 minute races and a strict 5 minutes in between. Multihulls do have a much wider variety of spectacular and catastrophic failure modes. For the team, avoiding these failure modes is the key to winning. For the spectators, it is often the best part. There are other advantages to multihulls. They weigh little more than a current AC boat mast. What a savings in carbon fiber! The land based compounds can be simpler and the need to ship (or fly) 40,000 pound bulbs is eliminated. Less draft means venues can be closer in for better viewing. Multihulls would attract huge new interest, both in technology and spectators. "The Wizard says it's time." -- Bill Lee | | | Re: Multihulls in the America's Cup
[Re: H17cat]
#76555 06/01/06 04:49 AM 06/01/06 04:49 AM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,382 Essex, UK Jalani
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Posts: 1,382 Essex, UK | Hey! You know what? We could have a series just like the America's Cup, but sail it in multihulls! It could be run along the same lines as the AC, with a Deed of Gift and all that.
Now let's see, what shall we call it?............................... I know! How about the Little America's Cup?
Oh sorry! We're not allowed to use that name are we? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
John Alani ___________ Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538 | | | Re: Multihulls in the America's Cup
[Re: Jalani]
#76557 06/01/06 07:16 AM 06/01/06 07:16 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | The problem is that the "no-holds barred" open development stuff is that it has been resulting in a runaway win. Booth and gang have really hit on something with the Extreme 40 catamaran class by having the racing up close and personal. The competition is also very close (as one would expect with a one-design class). I don't think we will ever see the AC would ever go to something like this format...but I think that something like the Extreme 40's could easily build their own championship that could be comparable - but I think we'll see it continue along the lines of sponsorship (ala "Team Motorola", "Team Hillfiger", etc.) instead of country allegiance (this would be really neat though).
Jake Kohl | | | Re: Multihulls in the America's Cup
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#76559 06/01/06 09:33 AM 06/01/06 09:33 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,459 Annapolis,MD Keith
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Posts: 1,459 Annapolis,MD | I'd opt for a fleet-style racing series rather than a match race. To me, that would be more representative of what most "average" racers are familiar with. Would give the spectators more to watch, as well. Although Fleet racing is what most of us know, actually in keel boats as well, I for one would like to see match racing in development class boats like the AC. The reason for my desire is that the handling characteristics that match racing seems to stress (at least in the keel boats) would be great to see developed in multihulls. The jockeying for the start, the need for fast and effective tacking... Of course, to make that happen you need to keep the boats fairly close. In addition to the design elements, it would stress different things for the racers that multis don't usually stress. | | | Re: Multihulls in the America's Cup
[Re: Keith]
#76560 06/01/06 09:57 AM 06/01/06 09:57 AM |
Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 26 Toronto blunted
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Posts: 26 Toronto | Well I think match racing in multihulls is pretty cool.
We'll keep you posted on our Little Americas Cup status.
Persoanlly I'd love to line up a C-cat against and IACC boat just to demonstrate how boring those big pigs are.
Failing that I think we'll try to run some C-cat courses on the same size course as the AC just to see the difference in elapsed times.
I cut it twice and its still too short
| | | Re: Multihulls in the America's Cup
[Re: tami]
#76561 06/01/06 10:02 AM 06/01/06 10:02 AM |
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 443 Edmonton, Alberta, Canada bobcat
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Posts: 443 Edmonton, Alberta, Canada | I do believe that Mr Lee is being facetious, especially with the suggestions re: 'spectacular...failure modes'
Tami: I took his "failure modes" to be along the lines of this. | | | Humm !
[Re: tami]
#76563 06/01/06 10:52 AM 06/01/06 10:52 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | facetious, especially with the suggestions re: 'spectacular...failure modes'
What type of boat holds both the round the world records and 24-hour records ? Was raced around the world without any major mishap as we have seen in the Volvo ocean race ? Or has yet to see a single sailor die in such race? And they are linking up "spectacular failure modes" with multihulls ? Wouter
Last edited by Wouter; 06/01/06 10:53 AM.
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
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[Re: Keith]
#76564 06/01/06 11:30 AM 06/01/06 11:30 AM |
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 887 Crofton, MD Chris9
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Posts: 887 Crofton, MD | Keith will sometimes engage us in pre-start match racing type maneuvers and it is really fun. It is also a good way to get a bunch of close quarters maneuvering practice. When we are doing well at it, there is not much talking going on, just doing, and doing quickly. As in let’s tack, gybe, and lets try scraping him off on that moored boat or starboard tacker. We should, wind permitting, do more of this. Only downside is loosing track of starting with the rest of the fleet. But, ideally that is part of the learning I think, as in control your opponent and get the start you strategically desire. It must be fun to watch as well. | | | Re: Multihulls in the America's Cup
[Re: Chris9]
#76565 06/01/06 12:24 PM 06/01/06 12:24 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,459 Annapolis,MD Keith
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Posts: 1,459 Annapolis,MD | Chris - just wait, it's getting warm enough to bring the water cannon back! Arrgh! Prepare for boarding! Actually, given the quality of my starts I'm just trying to make somebody else's start equally bad. Misery loves company...
Actually, on the match racing thing, I always thought it would be fun at the end of a season for the clubs in an area to send their season's "Champion" to a match racing event against the other clubs' "Champions". It would be a fun way to tie clubs and sailors together and might make for a hellava party. Some logistics obviously would be hard, but I'm sure all the creative minds could make something like this work if we didn't take it too overly serious. You could do it at the end of the year, or at the beginning of the next year. Depending on the number of participants and time, you might only need to rustle up two loaner boats (maybe one or two extra) if the various clubs don't sail the weapon of choice. It could even be fun having the meeting at the beginning of the season that lays out the ground rules (ie this year's run off will be on Hobie 14 turbos, Reynolds 33s, or whatever, boats get switched between rounds, any team that performs too well does a round of tequila shots before the next race, etc.).
Last edited by Keith; 06/01/06 12:25 PM.
| | | Re: Humm !
[Re: Wouter]
#76567 06/01/06 08:48 PM 06/01/06 08:48 PM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,012 South Australia Darryl_Barrett
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Posts: 1,012 South Australia | Come on guys, the AC will never be sailed in "affordable" "fast" craft of any kind. You only have to look at the concept behind the AC. It's all about the ultra rich boys toys. The more it costs, the harder it is for the "rabble" to be able to participate. It was stated many years past that, "they should bring back J class for the cup, then it could only be contested by men of substance". This of course meant that only the ultra wealthy would be able to afford to "show off", and compete tastefully with their money for all to see, and they wouldn't be hindered by "poor" upstart folk with ability “muddying” their “fun”. If it was only about sailing competitiveness, the ability of the sailors on the water, and “fairness” the dinosaurs that have always been used would all be the “fossils” that they deserve to be by now. In years past the boats used to be sailed by a hired professional crew who actually did the “sailing”, and the owners used to occasionally be onboard with their invited friends to sip drinks, socialise, and occasionally take an interest in how well the “sweaty, lower class hired help” were doing. Nothing much has really changed has it? Except that the owners now watch from their private multi million dollar floating palaces, their private helicopters, or from their six star accommodation (the “poor” only have five star) on direct satellite, BIG screen TV. What happened when Dennis Conner out of necessity, “whipped the butt” of the Kiwis with a cat? Did anyone in the AC fraternity say, “hey guy’s, these things really go fast, they are a lot cheaper and they are great to watch, lets adopt them for the cup”? I don’t think so. They couldn’t wait to rid themselves of all memory of the event. | | | Re: Humm !
[Re: Wouter]
#76568 06/01/06 10:16 PM 06/01/06 10:16 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 337 Victoria, Australia C2 Mike
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Posts: 337 Victoria, Australia | facetious, especially with the suggestions re: 'spectacular...failure modes'
What type of boat holds both the round the world records and 24-hour records ? Was raced around the world without any major mishap as we have seen in the Volvo ocean race ? Or has yet to see a single sailor die in such race? And they are linking up "spectacular failure modes" with multihulls ? Wouter I am certainly pro catamaran and think they are severely under-rated however be careful about making big claims like the above. Surely claims of no deaths etc might be setting ourselves up for a big fall if it ever happens. Tiger Mike | | | Re: Humm !
[Re: Darryl_Barrett]
#76570 06/01/06 11:09 PM 06/01/06 11:09 PM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. Timbo
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Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. | Dennis Connor and Randy Smyth already WON an America's Cup on a 60' Cat (Stars and Stripes, 1988?) against that 140' super Mono owned by that guy from down under, Fay was it? No doubt cats are faster and more stable but their "failure mode" is nothing compared to the failures of many AC boats in recent years, remeber the one that cracked in half and sunk?
Blade F16 #777
| | | Re: Humm !
[Re: Timbo]
#76571 06/02/06 12:35 AM 06/02/06 12:35 AM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 5,582 “an island in the Pacifi... hobie1616
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Posts: 5,582 “an island in the Pacifi... | Dennis Connor and Randy Smyth already WON an America's Cup on a 60' Cat (Stars and Stripes, 1988?) against that 140' super Mono owned by that guy from down under, Fay was it? I saw Fay's boat up on the hard in the Auckland harbor. It was next to Black Magic. Fay's boat was HUGE! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> US Sail Level 2 Instructor US Sail Level 3 Coach | | | Re: Humm !
[Re: Wouter]
#76573 06/02/06 03:17 AM 06/02/06 03:17 AM |
Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 915 Dublin, Ireland Dermot
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Posts: 915 Dublin, Ireland | facetious, especially with the suggestions re: 'spectacular...failure modes'
What type of boat holds both the round the world records and 24-hour records ? Was raced around the world without any major mishap as we have seen in the Volvo ocean race ? Or has yet to see a single sailor die in such race? And they are linking up "spectacular failure modes" with multihulls ? Wouter Unfortunately quite a few sailors mainly French, have died in multihull races, across the atlantic, if not around the world.
Dermot Catapult 265
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