Little brother just does not know what playing with the big boys is about yet but in true childish style decides to rip into the big boys not expecting a bite.



All this season, the F18s in Oz have been knocking of the Tornadoes on a regular basis………. However I will not say that the F18 is quicker or even as quick as a Big T.



Poetic justice will be sitting on a start line of 100 to 160 boats in Yeppoon getting ready for some of the hottest cat racing about when a few F16s are in Singapore………… Well………….

Love stirring the pot.

Now how does that famous Kenny Rogers song go again…..

You’ve gotta know when to hold them……….Know when to fold them
Know when to walk away……….. and know when to run.

Just a bit of fun guys <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Funny that a guy named "Tornado Alive" is pimping F18's! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Shouldn't you change that to "F18 Alive"? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

No, I'll pimp the Big T over any other cat and will be back on em after the F18 worlds. Even if the hulls are out dated. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Cheers

A Cats, F18HT's, Tornados, F18's, F16's, Inter 20's, or H16's, it makes no difference to me as long as within each class the boats are pretty much equal. As long as the sailors win the race, not the boat, I'm happy. But if I win the lottery I'll have one of each, and a Corsair F28, and I hear Play Station is for sale. I think I'd look good on one of those 60' Trimarans too, and a windsurfer...

And a water-proof shotgun for the Jet Ski's... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sounds like you either had some really special wind conditions, or the T sailors are not up to speed..



You wussy, the _big T_ is a bit of a handfull to retrieve singlehanded, but doublehanded.. Time to visit the gym and move some bodyweight from the waist area to the shoulders? Will do wonders for your righting moment <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (we are having fun here, right?)


Seriously. With the crew weight the F-16 class is optimal for, I dont see why it should not be able to compete for line honors with the F-18s. The F-16s have a better power to weight ratio, which should equalize the larger rig and longer waterline (which is not really that much of a matter on cats).
Just wait a while longer while the F-16 class grows, and we should get the answer.. (becouse I am certain the class will grow fast)w

Plug the current max VLM and 15m2 of CM (plus the F16 info we currently have on the SCHRS website) you get the same rating as the current for the F18:

Hmmm... You are completely around the wrong way there. Nearly always on both the forums and on the beach, it's the F16 saying something along the lines of -

"did you see how i did against that F18/Acat/whatever. I beat x across the line. Did you see that?? didjuh didjuh didjuh???"

It is a sign that the F18's have it nearly right when others are trying so hard to emulate them!

Tiger Mike

Have we touched a nerve!! The "overwieght" old boys seem to be on to us lightwieght youngsters.
Come on lets be friends at the end the day there's enough room on the water for all of us. Just because your x pounds heavier in all respects and aren't a development class doesn't mean you have to be jealous.
Give the F16's some time to prove themselves as the 18's would have done years ago against the Tornado (school boy error the older, bigger Tornado is lighter). We are here to stay and if you can't beat us you'll have to join us.

In Oz, the F18 class is made up from the best of the best from classes such as Tornado, Taipan 4.9, Taipan 5.7, A Class, Hobie 16, Hobie 18 ect. Like I said, I would not say an F18 is anywhere near the speed of the Big T. If we had sailors of equal skill level on the Ts, they’d be gone.

…… <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. Like I said, its all about the beach wheels. We had terrible ones on the T as do most on the lighter cats in OZ. Get the big ones and it is a dream to move any boat light or heavy.



I have no doubts that the F16 may reach the same yardstick one day with a lot more refinement and increased skill level. Not saying the sailors in the F16 class are not good sailors, but the quality of the F18s are second only to the Big T. Also given ideal conditions, the F16 can take advantage of its lighter weight. Throw in more wind and or larger seas and water line length is a huge advantage.

Here in OZ, we race boat for boat and have the edge all over the Taipan 5.7 fleet with spinnakers…………… <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />.

The main point is it is not about the speed of the boat, it is about the quality of racing.

If you and your crew weight less than 150, down to 130…… You will suit the F16, but may not be able to man handle the F18 on and off the water like a crew that is 150 to 170. They are different boats for different markets.

Ohh, I'm thoroughly enjoying myself. If a few amateur sailors like myself can achieve this then what can we expect when guys like Ashby and Bundock do a stunt on the F16's ?

The future is bright, the future is F16 !

Wouter

Actually Stephen,

The main point was whether the F16 design itself was as performant as the F18's, that was Gilo was talking about. Not about who has the best race cirquit, that is something you inserted.

And forget about the Taipan 5.7, I've been saying for years that that should be updated or it would fall behind. Same with the Taipan 4.9. Of course the F16's are updated versions of the Taipan 4.9 and truly it is starting to show.

Wouter

That is actually what I found as well. The weaker point of my boat (modified Taipan ) in relation to the F18's is in the mid range winds. 9-13 knots. In very light and heavy stuff I'm doing best and are very equal if not advantaged.

All nuances though.

Wouter

Hi Steve,

you will say anything to get me to reply. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Don't forget when you start talking about F18 fleet sizes in OZ, there are Aussies visiting this forum.

You do remember how many F18's where at the only regatta we have both sailed at don't you. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Forster last year and don't start making excuses. Don't forget also we would have more results to compare if you guy's didn't sail in your own division even when you don't have enough boats <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

Now I won't say that F16 gets more boats that would be silly, but just because F18 have some fleets of more than 10 at a few clubs that doesn't mean you have decent fleet racing all the time everywhere, from my experience most F18's aren't that keen to travel. I went to a number of regattas last year that had more F16's than F18's, at Torquay last year poor Chris on the Capricorn was the only F18 <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. After having 10 plus in previous years.

Just look at the results of the Sauna Sail where we held the F16 challenge, one of the biggest F18 regatta fleets for the season in Vic away from there home clubs. The F16's mixed it with all but Greg and Simon on the Capricorns and the best F16 regularly places around second over the line at his home club, where the F18's usualy number in the teens. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

A season ago I knocked off Greg a few times. No doubt the front of the F18 fleet has got faster, but the F16 is still competitive with the average F18 and once we build numbers, the front of our fleet will get faster also. Then World Domination will follow. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Sorry got a bit carried away there. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

But now for the important stuff. Looks like I might be able to make the Squaddie Brass Monkey along with Tim and hopefully that newly launched Blade, that you have probably seen. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> So we can have some fun on the water, not that I would expect to be able to put you under pressure, on my little F16. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

And a parting shot, if my beach rollers cost as much as a new sail, I think I would go for what makes me faster on the water, not on the beach. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Regards Gary. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ha….. What took you so long, the cold slowing you down, down there. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



Yep that Forster Regatta was my first with the new boat and had a very poor turnout of F18s compared to previous years. Only 4 boats with 3 top International Teams. Last year it was in the double figures and 2004 34 boats (2nd AUS Champs), 2003 28 boats (1st AUS Champs) Other regattas I attended this year saw 7 and 20 respectively with most of the fleet competing in the Gold Fleet at last years worlds and attended this years worlds. This is not Europe and it is as good as it gets on the AUS cat scene.

The F18s are only starting to grow in OZ but will continue to go from strenght to strenght. NSW is one of the least plentiful States with QLD and Vic being most plentful. However like QLD……. We travel a lot. I have not been in the class for too long but I here the F18s down your way are not know to travel.



Excellent, it looks like we could have about 9 F18s so far as well as 2 Tornadoes, Macca’s Super Taipan and about 5 A’s. The Skiffs are not going to know what hit them. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



On a final note, I wish you guys the best of luck and hope we can all race boat for boat on a first across the line basis one day. I personaly would love to see the F16s up there. At the moment the F16 rates slower than the F18 under every rating system for a reason…… Because it is. Head to head you may beat F18s over the line on a regular occasion as the F18s may beat the Tornadoes. But to advertise that they are as quick is blatently wrong.

Just wish some people would stop trying to put down the F18 in an atempt to gain respectability for their own class. In the past some people big noted a certain 16 foot class in our national sailing publication going as far as comparing them with the likes of the A Class, F18 and Tornadoes which was flat out missleading advertising. If you have confidence in your product, then don’t try big note and knock other classes to benefit your own, but market the positive aspects in your boat and there are many.

Don’t take offence guys, I believe you have a very good product and hope you find both local and International success with your class.

I know you are just having fun and all but are you really aware that under both Texel and ISAF :

1-up F16 is rated 1% faster then both A-cat's and F18's.
2-up F16 is rating 1 % slower the both A-cat's and F18's

Prior to 2006 and with the coming new ISAF handicap rule the F16's were/are rated equal to the F18's.

From 2001 to 2005 I (and others under Texel) raced of a F18 handicap. This year I get 27 seconds/45 min race (= 1 %)

Today we had another enjoyable club race day. 3 racing in total. An F18 crew asked me afterwards ;"what is the rating for those F16's", I said "102 under Texel, 1 point slower then you".
He replied :"That is a give-away rating". I finished twice just behind him at 5 to 9 seconds. After the totals were calculated he was the second fastest F18 during this day. The two Blades finished ahead of him, both in scoring and on finish line. You just can buy confirmation of F16 performance like that.

Another happening this weekend, This time in USA.


Gilligans run 26 miles distance race in medium winds. Blade F16 sailed by the McDonalds husband and wife team have beaten all other boats (17 in total) to the finish line on elapsed time. So we can just forget about corrected time in this case. There was a Capricorn F18 there but the crew has owned this boat for only a few weeks so they are still getting to know the boat.

Wouter

Why would the Vic F18's want to travel much??? We are nearing 20 boats at our home club where the boats are stored stick up and are ready for sailing within 5 minutes. There is great racing, excellent club facilities all within a short drive from home (for most). Most of the F18's go to the hobie state titles (for the Tigers), a Nationals and 1 or 2 other regattas. Beyond that, with family committments and the great racing we have at home, once again - Why make it harder than we need to???

Tiger Mike

I agree with Mike.

We need a sailing club for F16 members. I'll bring this up with our F16 officers in North America. We should find a suitable area where we can build our own private club (with facilities) ... then each of us move there where we can race each week (and generally pal around sharing tuning secrets).

Any nominations?

(My personal pick is Titusville, FL.) Consistent wind, wide river, easily accessible, close to the beach AND the N.A. Blade manufacturer nearby ... can't get much better; and the Space Shuttle launches are incredible to witness from Titusville.

Wouter, please do not state you opinion as fact.

I as member of the SCHRS group (the ISAF handicap rule Wouter refers to) can tell you that the rule is being revised. The results of such revisions are not yet fully documented or agreed.

It is possible that the F16 2 up, may end up rating the same as the F18. BUT the new rule has not been submitted to the ISAF yet, and so has not yet been approved, and so your statement is false.

It is possible that the F16 1 up, may end up rating the same as the F18. BUT the new rule has not been submitted to the ISAF yet, and so has not yet been approved, and so your statement is false.

I'm ready! How 'bout Gulfport?

OK.... If the F16s do become or as quick as or quiker than an F18, then good on them.

I am not class loyal and will race what ever suits my needs at any particular time. If I want speed, Ill go the Big T. But right now I want the best possible racing and the F18 offers that for me.

Mike, very envious of what you guys have down there...... Keep up the good work and hope you guys can come out to play at the big events which I am sure you do. Realy looking forward to the Nats down there.