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Dismasting #85300
09/24/06 05:21 PM
09/24/06 05:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 270
Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada
Frozen Offline OP
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Today was a gorgeous day for sailing solo in my Tiger. Winds ten knots or so. I was out on the wire as I find it more relaxing than staying on deck.

As I was coming in from the wire in preparation for entering the cove where my cabin is, the shroud beside me came undone.
This is not the first dismasting I have had on my Tiger.
The first one might have been an act of negligence. It happened when I was away from the boat.

So I started wrapping all rings and pins with electric tape. Then this happened today. I am totally mystified.
I suspect vandalism but am not positive.
In the meantime I am trying to figure out a bulletproof way of ensuring that bolts and pins and shackles do not come undone. Electric tape is not the answer.
The only thing that I can think is to do the same thing that our aircraft mechanics do and use stainless steel wire ties on the pins, shackles and bolts. The method is to put the wire through the (ring) hole and then twist the two ends of the wire together so it is like a braid and then attach it to something and then twist it again. Then cover with tape. If a heavy wire is used, it is as safe as you can get. Also bolts with locking nylon nuts. (nylocks)

Any other ideas?
(My H14 has never dismasted in probably 6 years of yeoman service... Darn thing is bulletproof, hugely fun, rugged, NO maintenance, in fact I feel so guilty about doing nothing with it that I painted it and put a Dolphin striker and upgraded the traveller. All these were just my ego being certain that you can improve on perfection.)


Cheers
Alan F

Tiger
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Dismasting [Re: Frozen] #85301
09/24/06 05:28 PM
09/24/06 05:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
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“an island in the Pacifi...
Safety wire will do the job. It's also easy to see if it's been tampered with. Make sure and use safety wire pliers so you can twist it easily.


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: Dismasting [Re: hobie1616] #85302
09/24/06 07:33 PM
09/24/06 07:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 502
Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia
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Darryn Offline
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Safety wire leaves a pigtail that is razor sharp plus you have to drill holes to lockwire through. Bolts with Nylocks are reliable but using a threadlocking compound such as locktite on shackle pins would also work.

Re: Dismasting [Re: Frozen] #85303
09/24/06 07:35 PM
09/24/06 07:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
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warbird Offline
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Bay of Islands, NZ
Dropped my mast two days ago on a beautiful gentle day. First time in 15 years.... no damage and excellent practice but it was negligence.... a pin came undone... not doing basic checks at sensible intervals with mast up storage.... only one hour of sailing earlier I was flying a hull and only just holding on out past islands with no one in sight....another lesson learned.

Re: Dismasting [Re: Frozen] #85304
09/24/06 09:11 PM
09/24/06 09:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 270
Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada
Frozen Offline OP
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Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada
Darryn
I thought about Locktite but figured it would wash out.

I plan to cover the pigtails with tape.

Am very lucky it didn't happen out on the wire, wind was light, my satellite phone (girlfriend bought it for me... what sweetheart <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) allowed me to call up my buddy (motorboat) to save me paddling, what little wind there was was a quartering tailwind.

Had a hard time taking the mainsail down (in <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />). Had to do it when I drifted into shore at one point. I used the opportunity to put the mast on the deck with about 4 feet of it forward of the mast base.
Biggest difficulty was all the wires and ropes tangled up in rudders, grabbing rocks etc.. Also the endpole snuffer dragged in the water picking up a load which made paddling difficult and pulled the nose under when being towed.

Was an excellent reality check! Maybe I will cobble up a checklist...

Worst part was my two buddies now have somethin on me. Nobody sees me screamin downwind with the spi in full bloom, but one little mast I drop... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Cheers
Alan F

Tiger
Re: Dismasting [Re: Darryn] #85305
09/24/06 09:40 PM
09/24/06 09:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
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Quote
Safety wire leaves a pigtail that is razor sharp plus you have to drill holes to lockwire through.
Once you get good at using safety wire you'll learn to bend the tails back so they don't snag anything. You can buy V-shaped jigs for drilling holes. If you've got a decent sized airport nearby you can buy AN grade nuts and bolts that are already set up for safety wire.


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: Dismasting [Re: hobie1616] #85306
09/24/06 10:34 PM
09/24/06 10:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 502
Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia
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Darryn Offline
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Quote
Quote
Safety wire leaves a pigtail that is razor sharp plus you have to drill holes to lockwire through.
Once you get good at using safety wire you'll learn to bend the tails back so they don't snag anything. You can buy V-shaped jigs for drilling holes. If you've got a decent sized airport nearby you can buy AN grade nuts and bolts that are already set up for safety wire.


Even with the lockwire tails bent back on themselves it is still very easy to cut yourself, especially with wet soft skin and the coatings the lockwire picks up during manufacturing slows coagulation.

Good luck finding stainless AN bolts.

Re: Dismasting [Re: Darryn] #85307
09/24/06 10:49 PM
09/24/06 10:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 270
Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada
Frozen Offline OP
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The shackles I have have the holes drilled.

AN (Army /Navy specification US) bolts don't rust and are coated for anti corrosion. Am not sure of their shear strength compared to stainless though.

The shroud base has a plastic sleeve that fits over it so that would preclude cutting myself on my boat. However in other areas the wire would have to be covered with something.

Any ideas on re-raising the mast?

Last edited by Frozen; 09/24/06 10:52 PM.
Re: Dismasting [Re: Frozen] #85308
09/24/06 11:37 PM
09/24/06 11:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 502
Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia
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Darryn Offline
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AN bolts are commonly available in cadmium-plated nickel steel, corrosion resistant steel (not marine grade) and aluminium alloy, which you wouldn't use. They all will corrode. The cad plated steel screws are the most common and corrode the quickest, you may get away with it in fresh water for a while, seems like you would be downgrading your Tiger by fitting them though.

You could tape the tail of the lockwire or heatshrink it which would be neater.

Maybe you should look into a threadlocking compound, they really are very good.

Re: Dismasting [Re: Darryn] #85309
09/25/06 12:01 AM
09/25/06 12:01 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,147
Bay of Islands, NZ
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warbird Offline
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Why not use the 2ml trap cord. The yellow stuff that has no coat. Ties very well, uv proof and I have used in in many similar circumstances.

Re: Dismasting [Re: Darryn] #85310
09/25/06 12:07 AM
09/25/06 12:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 122
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Jimbo Offline
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I long ago switched out all infrequently removed clevis pins with stainless pan head screws with ESN lock nuts. I did it because they are way less 'snaggy' than clevis pins and cotter rings. But it turns out they NEVER loosen, either.

On the shackles, NEVER buy the cheap no-name shackles for use on your boat. Just don't do it! Buy those nice pricey French made shackles with the max load stamped on them, I forget the brand. Not only are they made of stronger metal, but the slip side (the non-threaded opening for the pin) Has four corners instead of being just a plain round hole. So as you tighten the pin, the corners engage the sides of the pin, and do so progressivley more strongly as you tighten, so that these shackles are 'self saftied' and never loosen on their own. I have noticed that after a hard day of sailing with a cheap no-name shackle on the mainsheet blocks that the shackle pin will always bend a little. I found this a bit alarming and is the reson I swore off the cheap stuff. The French made shackles do not bend on the mainsheet.

Jimbo

Re: Dismasting [Re: Jimbo] #85311
09/25/06 04:31 AM
09/25/06 04:31 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Looking for a Job, I got credi...
I tape the rings, and then I tape the taped rings to the shroud plate an d then I put the plastic shieves you get on Nacra boats over the shroud plate.

See this here by my right foot:

[Linked Image]

Attached Files
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Last edited by scooby_simon; 09/25/06 04:33 AM.

F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Dismasting [Re: Darryn] #85312
09/25/06 09:02 AM
09/25/06 09:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 270
Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada
Frozen Offline OP
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Quote
Maybe you should look into a threadlocking compound, they really are very good.


Which Locktite would be appropriate?


Cheers
Alan F

Tiger
Re: Dismasting [Re: Jimbo] #85313
09/25/06 09:30 AM
09/25/06 09:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 270
Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada
Frozen Offline OP
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Quote
stainless pan head screws with ESN lock nuts.


On the shackles, NEVER buy the cheap no-name shackles for use on your boat. Just don't do it! Buy those nice pricey French made shackles with the max load stamped on them, I forget the brand.

Jimbo




They are called "Wichard". Rick carries them. http://store.catsailor.com/tek9.asp?pg=products&grp=279&mode=massorder

What are ESN lock nuts?


Cheers
Alan F

Tiger
Re: Dismasting [Re: Frozen] #85314
09/25/06 09:33 AM
09/25/06 09:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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South Carolina
Blue...maybe red (but red is probably a little too permanant - use red on things like traveler hardware and things). Green is for things you don't ever want to get apart again.

You know, a LOT of boats do just fine by taping their rings and pins without any issue. IMHO, it's a system that works just fine if you have good quality rings and inspect them occasionally (as with anything). I've gone thousands of trouble free miles and several years with it.


Jake Kohl
Re: Dismasting [Re: Jake] #85315
09/25/06 10:19 AM
09/25/06 10:19 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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echo what Jake says.... likewise we just tape out fittings, inspect them regularly and never have a problem.

Only dismasting we've had was due to a hound failure at the forestay connection. This is resolved using plastic spacers on the shackle.

Re: Dismasting [Re: MauganN20] #85316
09/25/06 10:35 AM
09/25/06 10:35 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 270
Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada
Frozen Offline OP
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Quote


Only dismasting we've had was due to a hound failure at the forestay connection. This is resolved using plastic spacers on the shackle.

Not sure I understand. You mean you use plastic spacers (plastic washers) on the shackle between the various connections? ie 3 stays and trap wires? Did the top of the forestay wear out from chafing?


Cheers
Alan F

Tiger
Re: Dismasting [Re: Frozen] #85317
09/25/06 11:13 AM
09/25/06 11:13 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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the hound plate itself wore out because of the friction of the shackle sliding back and forth.

We put plastic washers on the shackle "shaft" to keep the hound plate in the middle of the shaft and thus stop the chaffing.

Re: Dismasting [Re: MauganN20] #85318
09/25/06 11:22 AM
09/25/06 11:22 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887
Crofton, MD
Chris9 Offline
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Crofton, MD
Use delrin rod to make your own. Very easy. They work great.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delrin


Chris Allen
Nacra 20 Gertie
www.wrcra.org
Re: Dismasting [Re: Jake] #85319
09/25/06 03:59 PM
09/25/06 03:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 337
Victoria, Australia
C2 Mike Offline
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Victoria, Australia
Quote

You know, a LOT of boats do just fine by taping their rings and pins without any issue. IMHO, it's a system that works just fine if you have good quality rings and inspect them occasionally (as with anything). I've gone thousands of trouble free miles and several years with it.


What he says. Had exactly the same experience myself.

Tiger Mike

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