I'm sorry Rolf, I just can't help myself! If you guys are going to let reality enter into your reverie, don't forget what the H-16s did in the last Miami/Key Largo race! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

All this talk about speeds in excess of 20knots should be relegated to theory! Who really cares how fast you're going for a millisecond! In the real world 8-10 is far more likely.

I would be pretty shocked if you get to 25knots on an F18. During the Tybee500 last year on a Nacra 20 with a stiff offshore breeze and us hugging the shore, we were death reaching (main and jib only) while Frank was reading constant speeds in the 19-20knot range. A "gonzo" blast, that didn't show on the water, nailed us and the boat nearly accelerated out from under us. Frank dropped the GPS to his chest in lieu of something to hang on to and I was busy kissing my butt goodbye. I couldn't believe that the decks stayed above water. Frank checked the GPS later and the max speed was now slightly above 25knots. 25knots is narly.

What did the 16s do? Win?

8-14 knots is where we spend most of our time, agreed. As long as I finish before my competitors, I am more than happy <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Being able to sail circles around the monohullers is a bonus, but what I really enjoy these day is having a working team onboard and finding the groove (this is app. the message I wrote in norwegian while chating with Jimi earlier in the thread).

No, the H16s did not win. But they did very well! My point is that beach cats have limited performance capabilities and we've been in that general area for 35 years! Marginal increases in performance require disproportionate increases in expen$e.

My F16 will point higher and will generally perform better down wind, it is also lighter. I make no claim that it is faster.

So, IMHO, how fast is your F18? About as fast as a Hobie 16, depending on the conditions.

I dont think I can agree with you there Pete. Both VMG wise and pure straight line speed wise the modern designs are faster than 35 year old designs. There are some courses and conditions the old designs with relatively large overlapping jibs will excel on, but modern designs usually are faster anyway. But unless we get a breaktrough in technology or start using foils, I agree fully that we will not see large increases in speed.

A-Cat - I've been sailing/training with a Garmin GPS.

Upwind, 10-12 knots in flat water seems around the max.

Downwind - In flat water wild thing mode, I've seen 18 knots. Pete Melvin says 19 knots should be the max, they think the boat has gone 20 knots but not over that.

Last year at the Alter Cup Area D qualifier, I started a downwind leg ahead of Harry Newkirk on an I-20. We both gybed onto port gybe with Harry about 50 yards to weather. We both seemed to be going the same speed forward (I was flying a hull) but he was going five degrees lower so they slowly came down to me. This was in flat water.

I think the spinnaker boats go faster speed wise in waves because the A-cat gets stopped by the waves much easier while the spinnaker tends to power you through.

Not sure what top speed Hakan in Sweden has done with an A-cat with chute.

Bob Hodges
A-Class USA 230

I expect most of you have already seen this, but it's such a great movie, so what the hell.. Check out the speed he's going, the wind is to be no more than 12 knots..
Click on "Marstrom A-Class with Spinnaker":http://www.thebeachcats.com/videos.html

Have you ever put H16's and F18's on the same start during a race?

Unless you're doing reaching legs back and forth, that F18 will be waiting in between races.

Then you admit it! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> There isn't that much difference in top speed! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Beach cats have increased performance in many ways over the last 35 years, top speed is the least of them.

Bob is not going to like this, but ...

Do you see how Hakan (with spi) is running down that other A-cat (no-spi) in his video ? That is exactly the same view you get from an F16 or F18 when going downwind. It doesn't really matter how far the A was in front at the weather mark. You run him down before the gate.

However I do have some scepsis about Hakan doing 18.5 knots sailing downwind in 6-12 knots winds (average 9 knots?); spi or no spi.

Even if he is sailing at 140 degrees of the wind (a gybe angle of only 40 and a VMG factor of 77%) ; his sails are then operating at an angle of attack of only 28 degrees with an apparent wind velocity of only 12.5 knots. Such angles of attack are typically only found on upwind legs and I've never been able to fly the spi there. It will collapse at angles of attack of less then 40 degrees.

My experience is that not more then 150% of the wind velocity is possible under spinnaker when sailing downwind and in perfect conditions.

Wouter

I wonder if this will turn ugly? LMAO

Hi Wout -

I recorded a 14-mile downwind offshore leg off Daytona this year on the Cap. NOAA called the wind 10 knots and my trusty Garmin said we were doing 16 with squirts of 17.5. All the trigonometry aside, Hakan's number seems completely believable to me.

And try some azithromycin to clear up that scepsis. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sorry to hear your season has ended. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Same here John, even on a smaller boat. My f16, if the winds were 12kts that was pushing it. I was averaging around 15mph I saw a top speed of 19mph. It was not a jump, because the logs just before and after were close to 19. The only jumps I saw were 45mph and 62mph, a little high you think? LOL

Scep´sis - n. 1. Skepticism; skeptical philosophy.

Azithromycin - used for mild or moderate bacterial infections.

I have to say that you got me thinking on that one John so I had to do some investigating. Thought I would share the joke.

Dan

And now they make a soothing cream, too!

Miss you, Dano - nobody else gets me. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Eu tenho que fazer exame quatro 500 de magnésio Amoxils enquanto profilaxia antes que eu puder mesmo escutar JW

He's gone native, folks.

I'll get my wife's script pad, JC, and we'll get you fixed right up... but am I calling a Portuguese pharmacia? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

This thread is on speed - stay on target... (Brian?!)

Hey, don't let science cloud you minds boys.

Wouter

You call that Science?

GARY

But, how fast is your F18? Not as fast as you think.