just wondering how many ppl have made new hulls.
How long did they take to build and what sort of money was spent? Did you go buy the plans exactly or did you change a few things and how well did it go?

Hi All

Without actually sitting down and working out everything, here is a basic run down for a similar design.

Plywood sheets (4) 2500mm x 1200mm Gaboon $200
Plywood sheets (3) 2400mm x 1200mm Gaboon $150
1 sheet of 50mm Foam 2400mm x 1200mm $ 50
Epoxy Resin (8 litres) $300
Fibreglass tapes, fillers & glue additive $100
Western Red Cedar (gunnels, stringers etc)$ 80
Other bits and pieces, fasteners $100 (guess)

This will allow you build a set of hulls, you should also budget for a timber preserver or everdure type coating, undercoat, top coat.

There would probably (given your location) be the need to build a deck jig (very easy)I made mine from a disused table tennis table (cost $0).

Obviously plans would need to be purchased also. I'm not sure i've seen mosquito plans of late, to know what changes are outlined, but a couple of things on my boat I've done, under advice from other home builders, which I guess can be incorporated on the mossie, are to build the tramp tracks into the hull, and build in the chainplates.

A site worth just having a look at is www dot geocities dot com/phillbrander, and have a look under taipan/tortured ply construction.

Last but not least is time, I couldn't honestly say how much time I've spent building, but the end result will be worth it. If you have time to put into it, the average weekender could probably have built in a couple of months. Mines taken a lot longer than that, but mainly due to work committments. But it is a very rewarding journey.

I usually finish work by 2.30 so got heaps of time to work on them.
How hard is it to make a deck jig? and can you get plans for them as well?

I'm assuming the mossie uses one, all it is, is a long table basically with the finished shape of the deck cut-out, the hull is steamed and pushed into it to take shape, the hull remains in the jig while all the internals are fitted. I'll try and find a photo.

Regards

Wildtoy,
have a look here, some shots of a deck jig in use..

http://au.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/phillbr...ander/my_photos

Soggy

the 3mm ply 6 sheats 2440 x 1220 for my boat cost $156 from construction plwood in airportwest victoria.

4ltr west resin $82
slow hardener $30
west pump set $35
from saint gobain in nth melbourne

foam 3 sheets from styrapak in somerton
$60
plans from the assosiation cost $90 and include three diferent hull shapes, and a step by step guide to building a boat put together by Phill Pearce of south australia.
my boat is verry close to the Phil Pearce shape only lease rake on the transom and i have used 3mm ply instead of 4mm.

Greyarea

Is that $156 for the 6 sheets, wow that is cheap!
I got my 4 2500mm long 4mm sheets from Boatcraft Pacific in Queensland, would have to look back to see the actual cost of the sheets, but I paid $60.00 freight. I bought 2500mm sheets as to only have the one join in the hull sides.

I have to ask in regards to your foam, what size sheets were they? Were they the white styrene foam or the denser blue coloured foam?

Also the mosquito plans you say have three different shapes, are they based on like a fay hull, a boyer hull and the pearce hull?

What stage is your boat at? how has the 3mm ply formed in terms of where the frames are, I mean not too many rises and falls in the hull skin? I know the A class were built with 3mm and didn't have many problems so there shouldn't be any reason you have.

Keep us posted, I'm very interested in homebuilt boats.

Regards

had to put three skarf joints in it, the last one only 150mm.
the foam is white polystyren coated in resin.
the three shapes one is the original plans no rocker and this shape is not recomended. the ones drawn up by Phill Pearce are based on the Lane hulls built in south australia from about 1991.
the other one was drawn up by Ken Lott in about 1985 both drawings have a lot of rocker and verry little seperats these two drawings.
at this stage one hull is ready for decks, and the other will be going into the deck jig this week.
the frames havent distorted the shape at all, the only place that is out of shape is where i have a skarf joint in the cedar, i dont think it will be to visable when the decks are on, as it dosent look the best.

So the three plans come all together when you order the plans from the assoc.

I cant get the attachment to come up.

How long has it taken you to get this far?

Greyarea

Same goes here, no go with the attachment.

So which hulls are going with?

I always thought when people spoke of Lane hulls, they were refering to Gary Lane of Warrnambool, he could build a fairly mean mozzie as well. Legend has it, he would Mr.Sheen his hulls before every race.

Regards

sorry attachment dosent work, it was a picture of the hull in the deck jig.
John Lane is the Lane refered to in Lane hulls.
Gary Lane of Warnambool uses a Carter boat I belive.
I started to skarf the ply wood in May this year and used the farst hardener 205. As it is cold here in winter.
the harest part to find was the ceder. the stuff i got isnt verry good.

You are a lifesaver.

I have taken the plunge and decided to build a new set of hull for my old mossie. I weighted it the other day and my dear little mossie turned out to be a porker. 76kg base weight. Too much to strip out so I ordered the plans and started looking for gaboon marine ply. Well you should see the faces of the hardware stores around Hervey Bay, then I remembered your reference to Boatcraft Pacific in Brisbane. Thanks.

4 sheets of 2440x1220 gaboon $161 + freight (6=$241) Can't get 2500 lengths so it's another scarf joint for me.

Any comments are welcome regarding the building of new hulls from any mossie sailers. I'm still trying to get my head around which shape to go with and the pros and cons for each.

My goal is to have a competitive boat by the next nationals. (Well the boat might be competitive, it's the driver I'm worried about).

Regards

Pat
Bite Me
Mossie 1673

There is only one shape worth going with and that is the shape of the current foam boats buit from the Russell Denholm mould (often called Fay boats). There is also the mould that Phil Bovis has (Bob Wilson's boat), but it's not much different in the water (the deck looks different).

Not sure how you get that out of plywood though.

Hi Tim

Would it be in the class's interest, seeing as there seems to be a fair bit of interest in homebuilding in recent times, for the association to investigate making the lines and stations of these newer designs available with the plan set. It would seem that nobody would now build to the original specs, so that is one that could possibly be not included with future plan sets, perhaps archived for historical purposes, and perhaps look at the other two, to see whether they are still suitable to be included.

Just a thought.

Regards

Question.
With the templetes and measuring tolerances I recieved from the National Assoc. Do the newer fiberglass boats meet these tolerances/design or is their a whole different set of tolerances.

What Im trying to get to is if I build a wooden mossie and have two sailors of the same ability would it be a close race or would the design of the wooden boat be too slow

william

Just a quick note, started looking at the fay fibreglass hulls, they're near the $7500- mark. Starting to talk serious money, hence the option of the ply.

If someone could supply dimensions of their fay hull, it could help all homebuilders like me to know where adjustments can be made from the original plans.

Regards

Pat
BiteMe
Mossie 1673

Hi Will

The glass boats would have to fit within the tolerences. I know that if you buy taipan hulls from the mould, they do not need to be measured, as they obviously can't be changed and are deemed to have been measured, same with their boards and rudders.

Building a timber boat, most certainly doesn't put you out of race against glass boats, again the Taipan is an excellent example of this. However obviously whats deemed to be a faster shape would be the way to go, but whether the rocker measurements can be made available would be the next hurdle.

Its been said on here a few times, but as far as I can see there are three different hull shapes in the top three at the most recent nationals. 1st Bob Wilson with the Bovis Hulls, Angry Dragon with a Boyer and Tim with a Faye/Denholm. It has been stated, but again I wonder why, the Boyer hulls are not given more credit, the results are louder than words.

Regards

but if the fibreglass boats have to be within tolerances what makes them faster?

I know dumb ?????

Hi Will

The glass boats would be built within the tolerances, but theres a variation in the hulls shapes, mostly in terms of the amount of rocker I believe, they, along with the three different hull shapes shown in the plans, would all fit within the tolerances, including the original design, but have varying amount of rocker and would also produce various amonuts of hull volume.

Some have said the Boyer hulls don't have enough rocker in the hulls, but like I said the results are on the board. Its said that the Faye and Bovis hulls have the correct amount or seem to be the fastest shapes, but neither the Faye, Bovis or Boyer hulls shapes are available to build in timber, as such the glass versions are at the front row at the Nationals.

This is only my take on the situation, I've never sailed a Faye, Bovis or Boyer hull, only the original. So someone else with more experience in the varied hull shape can probably give a better answer.

Regards

maybe we should organise an annual wooden cat regatta just for the varying types of wooden cats

They use to split the fleet at State level anyway, into lightweight and heavyweight boats, because most of the originals or older boats were about in the 70 - 80 kg range in the platform, as opposed to the newer boats that were 20kg lighter, don't know if they still do that or not.

But nowadays ply boats can be built to the minimum, the originals used to have 2 x 4mm ply mid decks (8mm all up) little things like add up to heavy boats, and Gaboon wasn't around then, which helps keep boats lighter now.

Ply boats can be made as stiff, as light and as fast as glass boats, theres just a little bit more maintenance required. You can build in the tramp tracks and chainplates and have a hard time telling the two apart.

Regards

Hi all,

there are still, trophies for heavy weight boats within the class. This years Nats also show Heavy weight winner.

With the Knowledge it should be possible to make a timber boat as fast, but who knows? Rob is building one at the moment, to replace his Denholm hulls. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Rob how about giving the other guy's interested in timber boats some ideas. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Most important in this discussion is to remember, the differences in speed we are talking about are relatively small, actualy manouvreability is probably the bigger difference <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. The difference between different hull shapes performance, is much less than the difference in sailers ability. I placed 5th. at 2000 Sloop rig Nats and won sloop rig states later on a timber heavy weight boat, in fact it was heaviest boat in fleet, built in the 80's. Then changed to Cat rig on a Boyer minimum weight boat, which I won states and placed second at Nats winning 3 heats. The performance difference when I sailed a Denholm allowe me to win a couple more heats, thats all.

What I am trying to say is, if the guy imediatly ahead of you is on Denholm shaped hulls and you are struggling to pass him on older shaped hulls:p, then the newer hulls will make the difference, but you have to be there first.

Hope this doesn't sound like blowing my own trumpet, that is not the intention.

Most important is to sail what you have to it's potential and beyhond. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Regards Gary. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I couldn't agree with you more, Gary. I believe too much emphasis is placed on the hulls, rather than the rig / sail combination (and of course, skipper's ability!). Providing the underwater gear is in good nick (foils / blades), then the hull shape is only going to make a very small difference - such that an error in a tack will more than blow any hull shape advantage.

After all, how many new boats also end up with new sails? Is it then the hulls, or the sails that make the final impression?

Cheers

Steve

Hi Gary and Steve

I agree, I hope that I was sort of saying that it must be BS, that its not worth building if you can't build a Denholm or Bovis shape hull, earlier on people were saying that the Boyer hulls weren't recommended to anyone wanting to get their hands on a mould, but like you say, its more ability I reckon. But I've just been relaying the information on here that the people closer to the top have been saying.

How many titles has Bob Wilson won? Were they all on his Bovis hulls? I don't think so. Looks like it might be the driver <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Regards

There is someting to be said about having the fastest boat on the course. A finely tuned boat performs well with the appropriate sailor and works better if it can accomodate the sailors good and bad habbits but there sometimes is that boat which is an extra special boat.
This boat quietly glides past other top boats and forces a smile to your face. If you tried to copy all the settings to another boat or replicate the boat you would most likely fail to recreate this boat. If you damage this boat it would never be the same.

My father, many years ago dominated a class with such a boat for many years and I cant describe how many fond memories I have crewing for him.
I hope to own such a boat one day.

To experiment with hull design or choose a well proven hull shape is most likely only a small contributing factor, but without this you may never find or own such a boat as I have described.

Good luck I hope you build a boat that would suit a nice set of racing stripes...Red or lightning yellow <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hi Steve,

good to hear from you, how is "Just Do It" treating you. I know the boat well, as it dominated at Latrobe Valley Y.C. where I was a member for years. Paul always kept it nice <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />.

Regards Gary. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi Gary

You are right.........Paul did a wonderful job of looking after the boat. I bought it primarily to sail it cat rigged. Am going to order a new cat sail in the next couple of weeks or so. However, in it's native sloop format, two out on the wire, the boat shows a good turn of speed.

Steve

i very much dought that you coude make the ply conforme to the shape of the modern fiberglass mossie

There is a guy in Adelaide that has built a boat very similar to the latest glass boats.
It can be done.
As for the shape choices I think that a boat with more volume will help a heavier sailor be competitive in more conditions.
Regards
Chris

There shouldn't be reason a ply boat couldn't be made to the modern shape, so I don't agree with that one, Kats.

Theres a heap of modern designs that are still built in ply (as a alternative to glass) and the shapes achieved are pretty much identical.

Regards

Hi all, yes the timber boats can be built the same as the Faye shape and it has been done. A timber hull was made by Russell Denhlom and Larry Faye used this hull as the plug to make the mould.

As for a timber boat not being as fast as a glass one, I don't agree. If you have a look at the results over the pass ten years a number of timber boat won over glass, Kevlar and Carbon boats.

Three years ago the Vic sloop rig states title was won with a timber boat that was built in the late 80's early 90's by Bruce Carter. The crew was Phil Mann and Callen Ridge sailing “Loose Screws”

Russell coudent get the shape he wanted of the plans so he boged it to bet the rocker that he wanted. And to make it a bit fuller. I think the plans now have more options

Thats how most modern designs get the keel shape and fullness required, I have done this with my boat also, the amount of filler used is minimal.

Regards

i dont belive filer is required to make the boat fuller as my hulls have come up verry full up front, fuller than denholm hulls, which acording to one former mossie champ it is to full up front and it will hobbie horse in the chopy waters. this was achieved by overlaping the tape 1800mm from the front instead of 2050 mm as set out in the Phil Pierce instructions. i found this left a small holow in the hull profile up the front which was fixed by planing the front down to create the right curve and then re taped on the outside.

Just reading back what I wrote earlier, I should clarify, that the filler is used to produce a fair and even curve, so it belends the hull sides with keel line, because the fibreglass tape leaves a flatish surface from the outside edge of the keel tapes to the keel line.

I hope I'm saying what I'm try to say. When doing this it would make it more bouyant I would have thought, but I guess its more a cosmetic fairing of the hulls.

Regards

Keeline fairing