I would like to hear the racers opinion of the "new" starting system since we have been using it for a while now.

Tell us your good and bad experiences.

Tell us what you think the flaws are in the system itself.

Tell us what you think the flaws are in how it is being used.

Tell us what you think is best about it.

Tell us what you think can be done to improve it.

Do you think it is an improvement over the old system?

Several large Florida races have used it.

Works well if there are not too many starting fleets.

Its advantage is mixing up the starting fleets for the second and third races. Sometimes this works ok.

But I reckon you need more people to score and start.

Probably would work best if there were split start/finish lines-One can imagine the nightmare of all boats using the same line if starts and finishes overlap.

I've been to a few "large Florida races" with the new starting system (I presume you refer to the shortened sequence?). It's been good for the most part, and the only issues I've seen is when the RC forgets to put the correct fleet flag up or changes the order of the fleet starts and forgets to tell us.

Usually there are at least two starts (high and low portsmith), and more if there are enough of one type to have a fleet. Even if you don't quite get the idea the first time, you can tell when all of your fleet-buddys are creeping up on the line that you should be doing something...



At Tradewinds, all fleets shared the same finish line, and it wasn't a problem. The two courses (shorter one inside longer one) only posed a problem when the big guys were screaming to C mark, and the little guys were a bit in the overlap. The line was big enough for all, and a barging bouy was floated behind the RC boat after we backed into them between races.

Another big race (Miami Key Largo) split the line with the RC in the middle. monohulls on one side, multis on another. Theoretically, this could allow two fleets to start at the same time if it were all multis, but there would definitely be a little squabble over which fleet gets the favored side RC boat.



The shorter start sequence also allowed more races per day, which helps out teams like us, who try to wear down the good guys...

In our neck of the woods theye are pretending as though that system never got introduced. We still all do it the old way in our division.



Tim J.

Funny, But I have been sailing now for 37 years and for all that time the starting of many fleets was never a problem. But in these modern times where we all seem to think we know more than our forefathers, we have created a newer, slicker, smarter way to do things.

I best liked Tim's answer -- pretend it doesn't exist.

Problems:

*Takes a lot air horns -- there is a lot more noise going on then ever before -- horn to let you know something is going to happen, horn to let you know the class flags are going up, horn to let you know the prep flag is going up, horn to let you know the prep flag is coming down and horn to let you know the class flag is coming down for the start.

*Too many flags. One of the first things I learned on my way to being a Senior Race Officer is to eliminate flag clutter. Some RC boats fly flags all over the place and you have a hard time distinguishing which means what -- particularly with the sun at certain angles that makes all flags look like the same color.

And often a flag might be used simply as a telltale to check out the wind. Then the problem is that if there is any sort of recall flag, penalty flag, etc., they are usually all bunched in with the rest of the flags. By the way, recall flags should definitely stand out by being far out on the bow and not close to any other flag.

*Starts take longer. Here at the Tradewinds we post on the board the order of starts and stick to that for the duration -- that way everyone knows when to start. And we do it in three-minute intervals. So, six classes can be started in 18 minutes.

On the other hand, the new starting order has a class flag go up at 6 minutes, the prep up at 5 and finally a start. That is six minutes a start, and for 6 classes that is 36 minutes to get the races started. By that time the ones that started first are almost ready to finish.

Proponents of the new starting say that they can start classes at any time. So, instead of your class sitting around waiting for a slower class before the sequence can resume, they simply go into sequence with the class flag(s) that will be starting.

Sometimes this can work, but you need a lot of folks on the RC boat (those doing the starts, and those still taking finishes on the starboard side of the RC boat (usually the finish line is on the starboard side, while the start line is on the port side). And that can be pretty distracting for both the scorers and for the starters.

If you have ever worked on a RC boat you would know that it is pretty intense making sure the times are perfect and the flags are perfect for each start, and then things get really intense at the finishes being sure to get each boat in proper order, with the proper sail number, and time.

Putting all this act together in a three ring circus sounds confusing.

OK, one more problem. Wind shifts. No way you can adjust weather marks or any other marks when there are fleets all over the place. Thus you end up with a really crappy course with an offset upwind mark. Not good.



In other words, if you have a lot of starts, you can't beat the old system. The race officer has to plan so that the boats all finish around the same time. That is simply done by giving the faster boats a longer course, the slower boats a lesser course. If the wind shifts, you shift the marks after the last boat rounds the mark that needs adjusted.

All the rc crew helps the start of each race, and they help in finishing -- takes fewer people as well



But, then again, we are so much smarter than people that raced sailboats before us.

Rick

I don't usually complain, but our fleet used a surprise start after moving a mark in very light wind and I never got to the starting line before the next fleet started. I like the old way i.e. knowing when you are starting ahead of time. but enough whining, racing is about meeting a challenge with a passion and whatever it takes to play.

If it's the weekend I am thinking of, they used a LOT of "surprises" including a horn at 3 minutes. What the hell was that? If it's any relief, I would have been the fifth boat to "B" mark, but had to jibe six times on the reaching leg gradually getting farther and farther from the mark.



Anyway, good luck, and I'll see you next time



sail fast

I like it much better than the old system... took a few races to get used to, but I think it's clearer than the old system... you have a class flag, so you know for sure if it's your start or not... I went through my first general with it this weekend... it worked VERY smooth!!!



Ya know... if there is a bill in the mail box, even if you try to ignore it, it's still there.... I'm sure that every nationals in the country will run the new system. If you don't know it because you have ignored it... well... you're out of luck.



my 2c's



Will R

Another comment: I made large colored flags of plastic sheet last year for the new start sequence that matched the ribbons. But the most recent race committee (last weekend) instead used little teeny white class flags with black writing on them that you had to get REALLY CLOSE TO. Advantage: many boats passing close by committee boat to read the flags and reading the race course flag. Disadvantage: many boats close by the committee boat interfere with boats in the start sequence. Any preferences? Are letter flags too complicated for cat sailors?

Rick

You have your facts about the new sequence a little off.



The new sequence is 5 minutes. Class at 5min P at 4 P down at 1 Class down at 0. NEXT Class up at 0 = their 5 minute seqeunece (if you want). Warnings are issued at 6 minutes for the first start of the day After that... well... you will get the 4 minute flag and signal if you miss it at 5.



Mark Santoreli used the new sequence brilliantly last year at Barnegat Bay. Light winds prevented the first fleet from clearing the starting line.. Rather then blindly starting the next class on top of this mess. He was able to delay the class start for fleet 2 by not raising the class flag. He started fleet 3 off, immediately after fleet 2 because the wind had filled in In another race, he abandoned the sequence (flag) and postponed for a few minutes to clear and restart. . The new sequence offers flexability and allows the racers to figure out where you are in the series with good accuracy. ... if you don't need the flexability you may simply plow through your starting sequence. The only real difference are a flag and sound signal at 4 minutes.



With respect to windshifts

Windshifts happen and as PRO if you see a persistent shift just after you start a class , simply don't start the next fleet, wait for the fleet you just started to clear A and then move the Mark. (actually you should probably abandon the race in this case) Bottom line, Its not really different and is not related to the starting sequence.



With respect to confusion on the RC boat.

If you are limited with RC personal and can't collect finish times and also start a sereies... then you don't start a fleet off by them selves...Its an option that you can use but are not obligated to use. Its certainly not a disadvantage.



You can use this system badly as well.. Spring fever, attempted to put all the 7 different kinds of class flags up at once or in various combinations. This was a recipe for confusion.



Three minute sequences are not my favorite. You always have a few people from the later classes attempting to check the line and interfering with the ongoing start. With 5 minutes , they have time to check the line and then get out of the starting area. Moreover, the fleets will run into one another around the marks. You are better off with fewer starts and starting these boats together and letting boatspeed and skill seperate the racers around the course on the first beat..



Take Care

Mark