If the unwary did not put this in relation to the "Area D south results" thread and wasn't familiar with some of the more vocal posters, I can see how it could be misinterpreted.

But, it could be useful to see a discussion on where the F-18HT class mistepped in the US, and compare it to the growth of the F-16 class (assuming the F-18HT class in the US is as dormant as I have the impression of). Just as an educational exercise on class building..

Just because you put a smiley face on the end of a message does not mean you get to say whatever you want and it is funny. I figured it should be a joke, but failed to find the humor.

Now, it is funny that the NO NAME sailors are beating you to the finish line at half the cost and getting to share it with their friends. Maybe you could make a friend out of carbon fiber to make the hours of practice more enjoyable. Have fun at the sausage party after the race. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Is that what you were looking for?? Listen, I don’t see how that thread title on a major catsailing message board could do anything positive for the class or catsailing in general.

Matt

Well, ok then! I'm going sailing! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Ok, ok, your right. I have to take a break these message boards. I have learned a lot from you guys, but maybe I need to take the winter off? Besides, it is time to stop doing my patented back flips off my capsized cat and time to do some back flips on the snowboard.

Sorry for my sense of humor.

Good Luck,

Matt

Sometimes humor and sarcasm become lost when the issues are serious to some readers. The success of many endeavors hang in the public perception of respected influential commentators. Bob's valued opinion, if interpreted as real criticism, could damage sales, hurt manufactures, and kill off the fragile new fleet.

I wonder if Bob will miss the sad humor in this attachment. Funny or hurtful? Humor or deadly real?

Bobs a witch!!

Burn him!!

Does he float like a duck?........yes........BURN HIM!!!!



but don't touch his hair.

Robi, how can you tell there is humor in that post? aside from the smiley face? Are you not concerned that someone researching the F16 might have just formed a negative opinion on the class and boat?

I agree that message boards should not be your final decision making, but it may help you decide which boats to test sail.

I think Mark and Matt have made good points. Is Mr. Curry angling for a free boat from VM (don't do it Matt M)?

My 2 cents.

Guys, this is some serious thread here...
see attachment

Hi Guys

I have to agree, from an outsiders point of view, I wouldn't know Bob or any of you if you popped up in my soup, and not that I was hunting, but the thread title first caught my eye.

No need to burn him, hang him or bend him over, but it is hard to tell sometimes whether a post is written in seriousness or with humour.

You can probably tell by my typing that I'm happy, relaxed and have to get going now, going out for the day with the family.

Bye

George Bush or Bob Curry they all make gaffes. I just haven't figured out who's the more intellegent. It's probably Bob because he's likes F16's.

Watch it Mark - Be carefull <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
It's allright for the US Citizens to criticize GB, but not a GB (UK)citizen. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
There's a guy called S** out there who'll take your head off <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Another Friday Night - While I'm on a roll <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Did you see the Aruba Results <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
2nd Place Stuart Gummer (EX Spitfire)
3rd Place James Power (EX Spitfire)
5th Place Chris Sproat Spitfire
In fact all are current Spitfire sailors and were sailing Spitfires with the same crews at the Grafham Cat Open in October 2006.

I don't know Bob from Bush, but I saw the humor in it.

Rob V.
Panama City
(Secretly wanting a F16)

My friend is returning this Sunday. Unfortunately, he sustained 3 broken ribs during a high speed crash with a Capricorn. The Cap sunk, his Tornado is practically unscathed. Due to his injuries I have to drive him back from the Airport. (Aruba, paradise lost for some) Still it's a great result for team GB.

You all understand that Bob's original post was sarcasim, meant to torque Wouter, in direct response to Wouter's statements that the A cat sailors (of which Bob is sometimes one) don't have depth or tallent or words to that effect, based on the A cat placings in mixed fleets at their Alter Cup Qualifiers.

Nothing could be further from the truth. The A cat racers here in the US are some of the best and as someone pointed out, the class is full of US National and World Champions. I think the real reason they don't place well against spinnaker cats in mixed fleet racing is the spinnaker itself. The race doesn't end at the A mark and most spin. boats will easily pass them downwind if they are close at the A mark.

So the debate should be about how to score non-spinnaker boats against spinnaker boats, because the P numbers do not do the A cats justice if there is much downwind work in a race.

Still, if any A cat sailors are to compete in the 2007 Alter Cup, they will be sailing a Blade F16, with crew, so I guess they can strut their stuff there.

Has Bob qualified for the Alter Cup? And if Matt and Gina win the race, will they then be considered "Big name sailors"? Or do they have to win something on an A cat first?

Of course the simple answer is to add a spinnaker to the A cat and watch them fly downwind. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Okay the twisting of words and facts is getting a little out of hand now.

You are right Tim, nothing could be further from the truth then that as I didn't say these things or anything to that effect.

What I did say was that depth and talent in the A-cat class is not particulary special when compared to most other catamaran classes in the US. And that therefor I really do not see any reason to give the A-class a permanent slot to the Alter Cup event. A thing that is claimed by some on the basis of what they perceive to be "the exceptional depth and talent" in the US A-cat class.

This is very much different to say a class has no depth or talent.

If I say that you have about the same amount of money in your bank account as most people then that doesn't mean you are poor. It just means that you are just another member of the middle class like the most of us. In short "Nothing special"

Hell, the US A-cat sailors are already rated 4 % slower under PN then under Texel or ISAF, how much more leeway do they need ? In Europe the A-cats actually have to cross the line ahead of an F18 to win the race while you guys can float across the line some 2 minutes later (60 minute race).

Wouter

That sounds nasty. I hope that he has a quick recovery. It takes a while, but there should be no lasting effects.

Wouter, the fact that the two systems rate the same boats so differently is why I am not in favor of any handicap racing in the first place.

Exactly the reason why the F16 boat is what it is. Intended to race (and beat) F18's and A-cats on elapsed time.



The fact that Matt and Gina were still 4th on a pure elapsed times scoring (no-strike outs) proofs this fact ones more. See the elapsed time scoring

A truly good sailor or team will always end up high in the final scoring anyway, handicaps don't have that much to do with it then anymore.

This may be hard to take for some people but some of us here just need to stop thinking up new excusses and just start to sail faster. (And this certainly includes myself as well)

If you can't win an open class race sailing an A-cat while using the peachy PN handicap number then that is not indicative of a problem with the handicap system. Afterall Ashby and Saarberg are winning races on A-cats against a far more difficult handicaps and in much larger open class fleets.

Sorry guys,


Wouter