OK, what have we learned?

- F18's are plenty strong, so buying used not an issue
- rigging/sails the most likely issue on a 3-year-old, but not critical if racing isn't an initial concern
- no real preference should be given to make as they're all well built

...and from the side conversations:

- lots-o-regattas within a days drive our fair city, including with our friends to the north
- F16 and F18 sailors need to sit at opposite ends of the bar

Thanks everyone!

I don't think you would want an f16, because thay are made for the Midget class.

As most others will say, they are strong. My last boat was sailed in all sorts of conditions in what is often a very choppy bay for 3 years on average 1.5 times a week (all year round) and was still going strong and winning races when I sold it a few months ago.

My main experience has been with Tigers but same goes for most F18's, the main thing is to check that the boat has been well cared for and (preferably) stored under a boat cover. With a 3yo boat I would be starting to replace some of the standing rigging (stays, trap wires, twist anchors etc) if they haven't already been done.

Cheers,
Tiger Mike

I am sorry but comming from a person with only five posts I find zero humor in that post. I am 5'8" and weigh 185. I don't think I can be diagnosed or categorized as a midget.

Because of comments like is where all the bickering starts about boat classes. IMO very 5th grade-ish behavior.

At 185 you would need a 10year old to be at a competitive weight.
You can't tell me you can sail an F16 over 330.

Thats why I sail UNI-RIGGED

And actually I did, I sailed at 350lbs in the Miami to Key Largo race and scored second place in my class. Unless you know what you are talking about, or have even stepped foot on a F16 please keep the blabering for yourself.

Seriously the F16 bashing is getting really old, really quick. Plus this thread has NOTHING to do with F16s.

To the author, I apologize for this, but the comment was out of hand. I hope you can find a boat that suits your needs. If you are ever in South FL, look me up and I am more than willing to show you the boat and if time permits I will take you out on the bay.

I think Stuart and wife will be fine on a F18, as they would be on a F16 if they are 330 lbs or there abouts. I sail mine at 342 lbs.

I don't much understand the F18/F16 bickering in this thread, from either side.

Not much F16's there up North (yet!), so F18 is probably the way to go for them unless Stuart or wife want to do some solo sailing regulary. Then the F18 becomes the lesser attractive choice.

Probably the best use they can make of the F16 is walking up to a nacra of hobie dealor and mention that buying an F16 is under serious consideration; you'll probably see the price of the F18's drop inmediately ! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Wouter

Stuart, Just remember what I said before about crewing for sombody else. By all means attend at least one regatta as soon as you can, even if you don't race. The connections you make, and the advice and intruction you get from the old salts will save you much suffering! If you are near enough to attend one with Matt and John, GO! You are about to embark on the most fun you've ever had! The boats are all good designs, and you'll find great sailors sailing all brands. At 5'8" and 134lb I'm in the midget calss, and dream of moving up to the incredibly versatile Blade F16. Mind you, if you were sailing striclty in their area, I'd be preaching Hobie 16 with fleet 204. Sure it's an old design, but they are great boats, and there are many awsome sailors still racing them! I have a H17, and sometimes crew on H16s, 18s, and 20s. Another great boat is the Nacra 17. But I don't think they race them 2 up. Beautiful boats though! Robi, don't take it so hard. Some of us know the F16 is a great platform, and is bound to grow! How many Blades were sold in the US this year? Maybe not many in comparrison to F18, but give them time. They will catch on!

The hulls on F18 boats can take a real pounding out on the water, but are less dent resistant than the older beach cats like Hobie 18s or Hobie 16s and don't take kindly to being dragged up the beach without wheels. Check out the hulls for dents and dings and the very bottom for worn gel coat. With the number of great, well looked after used F18s about at reasonable prices there is no need to buy one that needs a bunch of fairing/gelcoat work.

If you do go for an Inter 18 make sure its not got a carbon mast (they are no longer class legal). A used Nacra F18 is a good bet. The performance differences between boats is small compared to performance differences between sailors.

If a boat has been sailed hard for a few years it may benefit from bedding the cross beams to the hull with epoxy to stiffen it up - or at least check the cross beam bolts are tight.

Chris.

Hey Jake, just to throw a little Hijack in, how do you think a Nacra F18 would go if you put an Infusion rig on it????

I perosaly don't think the Nacra F18 platform is that slow. NOTE - This is not based on experience but observations from regatta results around the world. I have heard from many that the NF18 main is very dated and later model mains are a bit quicker. Also the wing mast is believed to be more efficient than the pear shape mast. Once again this is based on rumors but does not sound too far off the mark to me.

Just recently I sailed a Tiger with a Capricorn mast and a Pablo main and it felt very powerfull. This had a lot to do with a very good rig / main combination well tuned.

The best part about the F18 class is you can mix and match parts if you desire, from different manufactures and still be class (F18) legal.

Rolling is the easy part (balance)
It’s when lifting and particularly when “righting” that you will notice a big discrepancy. However the F18 is physically a much bigger boat.. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Chris,

Excellent point about the F18 class allowing for an a la carte approach to rigging and remaining class legal, hadn't thought of that at all!

Hmmm...maybe we can go dumpster diving in the F18 wreck market, piece together a boat on the cheap, and call her "Pot Luck". <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Wouter,

Thanks, it's always good advice to go into a dealer of anything and tell them you're seriously considering their competitors product.

Go here, http://www.adventureonline.tv/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=1 , inquire about "Frankenboat". They'll love you for it and you'll be glad you did.
Tell them Tikipete sent you. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hehehehe...yeah, right! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh what the heck...just followed your suggestion (entrapment?)...looking forward to the results!

I keep thinking about it...I think the biggest thing holding my boat back right now are the sails and the development that has taken place in the last 2.5 years since I bought sails (I'm running late on my upgrade plan). I may have an opportunity to string up an infusion rig on the boat this spring at a regatta - might give that a whirl.

Actually, IMO Frank did a very good job.

You don't understand where the bickering is coming from... read your own freaking post! What would you expect us to say... golly gee wiz Wout, you're so smart how could I have missed that? WTF dude!?

All the boats are good. All sailors, well....
Any way..The boat you get depends on what you want to do over the next few years (which turns into 20).
Pleasure sail: buy what looks good at a good price and have fun and don't forget the CoolCat.
If you want to become a good sailor and ultimately a good racer you have to sail one design around the buoys against big fleets with tight lines and good racers.(my opinion/probably fact)
Finishing Top 5 in a 4 boat fleet with a 20 boat line looks good on the trophy shelf but didn't teach you anything.
In the Northeast that would be the H16 and the F18. The regatta's in div 16 are Hobie only.
( I would like to see all HCA events opened up to F18's)
Based on where you live, The Tiger seems to fit the bill.
Before I get jumped on as a HCA/Hobie guy I would like someone like Jake or Olli to comment in the importance of sailing the large one design events.
I remember reading some disappointment by Jake after this past years F18's and thought that without the opportunity to sail a lot of one design events it's hard for him to improve further even though he obviously works very hard at it and has done well in a short time.(only an opionion)

An example of what I know something about:
The Hobie 16 Nationals had 56 boats. There were 18 past National Champions or Olympians in the top 30.
When you add in past top 10 guys it gets even harder.
Finishing in the top 25(was my goal) is extremely difficult.

Just get a boat and get started. The boat will not be the issue for a long time.

I think you are refering to "one design" as SMOD (single manufacturer). From an F18 training standpoint, I don't think having a mixed bag of F18s vs. SMOD group of F18 platforms makes that much of a difference. In fact, I think racing in a mixed bag of F18s help you find the minor strengths and weaknesses of your particular platform so you can exploit them. Only once have I raced in a SMOD fleet with my F18.

Our lack of performance with NAF18 NA's this year is largely due to a lack of focus and practice both at and leading up to the event. I spent the majority of the year working on the Nacra 20 and distance racing. Coupled that with limited vacation time, limited funds, and completely missing at least one significant F18 event (Spring Fever)...I just wasn't prepared. I think the North American fleet as a whole has stepped up and gotten better too and left me behind a little.