He's a buck eighty, you can swing that! You might have to pull the strings on Sunday, you know how delicate he can be.

I'm relatively certain that a separate start is a prerequisite for it to be scored in F18 standings.

Well, I guess I butchered this whole discussion.

We are talking about starting together, but being scored as fleets within that larger start. While on the water I would try to race everyone head-to-head, but would like to apply D-PN to see how correct the numbers are. If we wanted to add the extra layer of scoring everyone on Portsmouth then we could do it and supply USSA with some good data on making better handicap ratings. In this scenario, the F16s, F17s, F18s, N20s, etc. will remain in their original fleet status, but share a start line, race course, converstation afterward, etc.

I certainly understand that if the F18s have a huge fleet or their nat'l association wants it (which they are apt to do on both counts), then they'd want to start alone. No problem here. I was really trying to get the fleets of 5 or 6 boats with SIMILAR sailing characteristics to join in.

That's all I was trying to say. Clear as mud. I'll shut up now.

No problem with that at all. A large fleet of Formula/OD that is hosting a Midtwinters/Nats/Continetnals has that right. It may very well be mandated by the NAF18 group.



I'd lose too many sailing days when I do not have a crew ready to go. I do not have the luxury of having dependable crew. My problem, not yours.



The speed differences of the boats in question are not very large. Ok, I'll really shut up now.

I also agree with everything Olli said. I could see a lot of bad results of these 2 classes being started together but scored separate. I have a lot of time and money committed to sail in a fair F18 regatta.
If the F16s want to race in the same class I may also be able to convinced but no way i'd go for same start and separate scoring.
-Todd

Just curious

Exactly How many NAF18 Regattas were there in North America with 10 boats or more in 2006? How about 5 boats?

I will bet that the Hobie Tiger Class had better turnouts and more events that reach that modest bench mark then NAF18.

So... if you spent a lot of money....you probably aren't getting your money's worth.

If its so important to have an absolutely pristine race course... no traffic, no waiting, etc etc. Buy a venue and race committe and run events just for the NAF18...
Tornado's do this... So do the A cats!

You should be able to do that for a 100 bucks a day per boat... (This is where your money should follow your mouth)

God forbid the slow boats go first... Why... they would be in the way... How could you have fair competition with a hobie 16 in the way heck... i know... they should tack away so that your race is not compromised!

My point is.... to stop standing on that soap box and telling the gullible that the NAF18... is the greatest thing since sliced bread and nobody should be in its sandbox... or shudder, be scored with the F18'. This is laughable... and sad!

PS... for the purposes of the Portsmouth ratings... they only need the first F18, the First F16 and the first n20 elapsed time around the same race course.

The rest of the scores are for the sailors to see how they are doing against the fleet.

Not that it matters, but at the 2006 open Tornado nationals in Sweden (which had participants from Sweden, Norway and Denmark), we shared the start and course with the F-18s. No problem, just more boats on the start and the course. Great for socializing on shore.
We drove for 15 hours to get there, and ripped a Gran Segel spi, so it was pretty expensive. Did not matter tough..

Scoring was of course separate.

My concern is mixing sailors with different skills not boats with different speed.

If you are sailing in a fleet with skilled sailors you know what to expect in tight situation, but if have have sailors that can't handle the boat or are unsure about the rules you will run into problems. Hobie used to have a, b, c fleets where you could start you sailing career in c-fleet and then gradually upgrade to higher fleets. It is no fun to start with your roboust Hobie 16 in a fleet with expensive and fragile carbon boats....

/håkan

Holy smokes. How did the arguement:

"Hey if we have 10 boats we'd like our own start"

turn into -

"The F18 is the greatest thing since sliced bread"

Thats a patently F16 assertions :P

Mark,
Last year at Tradewinds 16 boats raced... there were more who opted not to race because of the heavy wind. So there were over 10 boats and I think it was worth it.
Last year I raced a Tiger with my friend. The format last year, with F18s having our own start was great, I had a blast, and it was definitley worth every dime. Rick did an amazing job getting races off with minimal waiting and preventing traffic. I don't mind waiting, traffic or etc, I just don't see a reason to set up a race with extra traffic at the start and most likely, as a direct result on the rest of the course. I don't remember you there last year so what gives you a right to give your input on this topic.
This year I am chartering a Capricorn because I am a broke college student who can not afford a F18 just yet, let alone a Tornado or A-Class. But I thought I was going to have a lot of fun, and probably get in some good racing against 10-18 other boats so I figured it'd be a good way to spend my money.
For someone who tries to promote youths getting involved in sailing so much you did a really good job of making one feel like crap.
I simply tried to give my input, I feel your post was completley uneccessary and unappreciated. Does the argument that some people think F18s are the greatest thing since slice bread have any place in this discussion? It seemed like a simple discussion to me reguarding an aspect of a regatta which you did not attend last year, aren't attending this year, and I doubt you've attended in the past.
Glad to know your so concerned though.
This discussion wasn't about mixing classes in general it was about one specific regatta. I don't care about what people want to do in general but I am pretty sure that the purest form of racing would be one design/ one class starts.
If you want to have this arguement then start another thread which I won't get involved in. If you wish to discuss anything with me further please PM me. I am normally passive and don't get involved in redundant arguements but your post just pissed me off.
-Todd

Holy smokes, after all this ** NOODLE **, I'm petitioning Rick for my OWN start .... anyone can join me ... no discrimination <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Stop the madness. It was not my intent to provoke this type of discussion. Its not that big of a deal.

The F18 group is not interested in a shared start. They will have good numbers and have competitive racing. No problem. Good job getting your boats there.

The invitation is still open for the Low Portsmouth fleet and N20s (when they make fleet status). Again, handicap racing and score the F16s out as a class within the entire starting group.

Let's move to another topic.

Ding, that Fuentes was amazing....

I got hold of some cuben fiber for Tradewinds,, I'll be holdin'.

Excellent!