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Re: Trap wire replacement [Re: NACRADUDE] #98818
02/14/07 11:58 AM
02/14/07 11:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
NCSUtrey Offline
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NCSUtrey  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 829
Charleston, SC
Quote
It's up to you what you wish to use but I think anyone not using wire for standing rigging is huffing glue. That would scare me sh*tless. Now as far as trap wires, I just go to West Marine with my old set and use their swedge tool and make my own. Cost about 20.00 if I remember correctly. I just don't trust any type of line with my safety.


Then you sir need to move out of the dark ages and do a little research on today's newest rigging technology...


Trey
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Trap wire replacement [Re: NACRADUDE] #98819
02/14/07 12:01 PM
02/14/07 12:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
Quote
It's up to you what you wish to use but I think anyone not using wire for standing rigging is huffing glue. That would scare me sh*tless. Now as far as trap wires, I just go to West Marine with my old set and use their swedge tool and make my own. Cost about 20.00 if I remember correctly. I just don't trust any type of line with my safety.


But, in the end, the synthetic line traps are actually stronger than the wire and I actually trust the eye splices more than the swages (for the msot part).

Re: Trap wire replacement [Re: PTP] #98820
02/14/07 12:06 PM
02/14/07 12:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 902
Norman,OK
gree2056 Offline
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gree2056  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 902
Norman,OK
I have to say that I to would have a hard time trusting line for rigging but for the traps....it would be fine with me.


Once you go cat you never go back! Nacra 5.2 (Elsies)#1499, running an inter17 spin!
Re: Trap wire replacement [Re: gree2056] #98821
02/14/07 12:23 PM
02/14/07 12:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Robi  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Funny you all say that you dont trust it. If you read into the specs some of the synthetic line is actually stronger than wire.

Re: Trap wire replacement [Re: gree2056] #98822
02/14/07 12:31 PM
02/14/07 12:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Non-believers should check out this table:

Mechanical Properties of Selected Fibers

Notice that Zylon PBO has a Longitudinal Tensile strength of 5800 MPa (Dyneema/Spectra is about 3200 MPa, about the same as glass fibers).

Re: Trap wire replacement [Re: mbounds] #98823
02/14/07 07:03 PM
02/14/07 07:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
ncik Offline
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ncik  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
The thing to remember with rope rigging is that if it rubs against a sharp surface, it can be cut. This is easier to do when under tension too.

I wouldn't want something that can be easily cut holding my mast up, whether it's stronger than stainless steel or not. If there were a couple of stays, so that there were backups should one fail, then that would be a different story.

Stainless steel is proven to work on our size boats, going with lighter stays isn't going to improve your performance significantly, and probably not even proportionally with the risk of dropping the rig.

Using rope for your trapeze is pretty low risk (low "cost" of failure (at worst you fall in the water) and low chance of it happening (particularly if you inspect the stays regularly and replace if worn)). This is how planes stay in the air, use lighter structures (with finer safety factors) but inspect them regularly for problems, repairing when necessary.

The risk associated with falling in the water is another matter. If you are inland racing with rescue boats around, the risk is low. If you are sailing in the ocean without rescue boats, the risk is high.

Since the risk is to yourself as user of the boat, you have to weigh up the options.

Re: Trap wire replacement [Re: Boudicca] #98824
02/15/07 10:39 AM
02/15/07 10:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
carlbohannon Offline
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carlbohannon  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
Quote
Initially the stuff will "stretch," although it's not really stretching, the fibres are aligning. Once that alignment is accomplished, it stretches no more for all intents and purposes.


No, it aligns and it stretches.

(This is on a beach cat)

The aligning or springing is just a pain, you have to preload the rigging every time you rig the boat to pull the rigging tight. I estimate I would have to stretch the rigging an 0.5 -1 inch and then it would stop.

PBO and Dyneema also stretch. For 3mm the stretch is:

PBO, 0.4% @20% load
Spectra 1.0% @20% load
1x7 Dyform 0.2%@20%
Carbon ~0.0%@20%

For a 25 ft line the stretch at 20% load is:

PBO = 1.2 in
Spectra 3 in
Dyform 0.6 in
Carbon ~0.0

The stretch with Dyneema is really noticable. Even a casual idiot will ask you what is wrong with your boat. With Dyneema, in heavy air, I am guessing I was getting 5-6 in stretch on the side stay and 2-3 in on the head stay a 6.0NA(I know it is not class legal). It really screws with the mast rake and makes a laminate sail feel like a worn out Dacron sail in the puffs.

I never used PBO, Vectran, Technora, etc because of UV problems and problems with splices (mine).

Carbon is great except it breaks where it flexes, adding a little epoxy helps a lot. If you are making your own, really watch the carbon. A lot of uni tapes have breaks.

Carbon core Spectra is great. The idea is the Spectra serves as the abrasion cover and keeps the mast from falling down when the carbon breaks. It was so hard to make (you have to preload the cover and the core at the same time), I only made samples.

I found I liked the way my boat feels with dyform and stopped.

I agree the Precourt is good. I have not tried synthetic rigging on bigger boats but I have on beach cats and found problems.

FYI - I really like Dyneema traplines

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