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Re: F-18 Worlds, Day Four [Re: mbounds] #99571
02/23/07 02:02 PM
02/23/07 02:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Quote

A boat shall avoid contact with another boat if reasonably possible.

- However, a right-of-way boat or one entitled to room ...

(b) shall not be penalized under this rule unless there is contact that
causes damage or injury.




So the crew who has right of way will itself be penalized if there is damage and they will not be rewarded a redress when there is no damage.

And on top of that the crew that was fouled also needs to make a effort to file their protest in time, only to see it thrown out because the fouling crew did a 360.

Like I said, the current racing rules favour crews that foul in many situations. Most often because it is so hard to proof anything and get a succesful protest filed.

Best course of action in this case is to still put the fouling crew into hospital and sink their boat.

Why ?

Because then the fouling crew will have gained nothing by intentional fouling you, something that will likely happen if you let it pass. And the fouling will know exactly why they deserved all the pain and suffering and will do so for the rest of their lives. Much better then looking them up on the beach later which will only give ISAF more reason to punish the crew who actually did nothing wrong.

Just say you never saw him coming and continue to deny all accusations as the other side won't be able to proof the contrary.

Sure, your event is wrecked, but so too is theirs ! Hopefully (for them) they still have enough braincells left to remember that the next time when they consider playing chicken again. And lets not forget that you set an example to all the other crews out there as well and they will think ten times before trying a similar trick. You throw one event but get plenty of room in all future events when you have right of way. So in the end you gain and the other looses.

Like I wrote earlier, I hate to say this but it really does seems the only course of action today and at this level of competition.

It is certainly one reason why I wouldn't want to race at this level even if I had the skills to do so.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 02/23/07 02:42 PM.
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Re: F-18 Worlds, Day Four [Re: Wouter] #99572
02/23/07 03:25 PM
02/23/07 03:25 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Err, I wonder if I really want to race anymore when I read this?? God forbid that I dont see a boat coming upwind on starboard while we go downwind under spi.. Intentional ramming and putting people in hospital. Having fights on the beach..

Most of us are recreational racers, we are supposed to be doing this for fun. Take it to the room and have a row on the beach if you need to, but all this talk about hurting people.. I dont think you know what you are talking about. I can as good as guarantee you that you will not feel good if you put someone in hospital, even if they were arseholes on the course. If you dont, you need to talk with a professional.

Re: F-18 Worlds, Day Four [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #99573
02/23/07 03:32 PM
02/23/07 03:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 69
Austin Lake MI
jes9613 Offline
journeyman
jes9613  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 69
Austin Lake MI
Rolf,

My comments were made "tongue in cheek"

John

Re: F-18 Worlds, Day Four [Re: Wouter] #99574
02/23/07 04:24 PM
02/23/07 04:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
David Parker Offline
old hand
David Parker  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
So the calculated risk is that the 360 is worth it if you foul the other guy to such an extent that he capsizes. Like in snowboarding, perhaps the day of the 360 is past. Now a 720 or perhaps a 1080 or 1440 would change the calculated risk/benefit ratio.

Re: F-18 Worlds, Day Four [Re: Tom Korz] #99575
02/23/07 04:51 PM
02/23/07 04:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Looking for a Job, I got credi...
Quote
Quote
Wasn't there a thread about this same use of tactics last year. If memory serves, there was a Tiger that crash jibed at the finish because a port boat wouldn't back down. Seems to be becoming a prevalent tactic. Almost expected and anticipated.


Tiger Worlds 2005 Santa Barbara, 87 Boats

A little bit of chicken played in a P/S with spins up. Pretty well documented event.

12ish kts. Two top five boats coming downwind, to finish, opposite tacks. Port holds out long enough that the only way the S could avoid a collision was to head up, resulting in a flip. P does 360 goes on to finish top 15. S rights boat finishes in the 10-15 range, falls out of top 3.

Most agree that it was a planned move on P's part.





S should have gybed. Rish reward on both sides dictates that the gybe is the think to do. Other boat still has to do a turn.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: F-18 Worlds, Day Four [Re: mbounds] #99576
02/23/07 05:03 PM
02/23/07 05:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 337
Victoria, Australia
C2 Mike Offline
enthusiast
C2 Mike  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 337
Victoria, Australia
Quote
Quote

I hate to say it but the next time this situation happens G&J (or you) just have to try to sail that port tack boat in halve and put the skipper into the hospital.


Wouter, welcome to Rule 14:
Quote
14 AVOIDING CONTACT
A boat shall avoid contact with another boat if reasonably possible.
However, a right-of-way boat or one entitled to room
(a) need not act to avoid contact until it is clear that the other boat
is not keeping clear or giving room, and
(b) shall not be penalized under this rule unless there is contact that
causes damage or injury.


I'm not quite as extreme as Wouter however if P's rudder were to be taken out whilst S was attempting to avoid the collision. Yes sir - when it became clear that the other boat wasn't keeping clear I rounded up as fast as I could however in doing so I hit his rudder - I suppose it is better than a big collision amidships......

For club racing it's a bit extreme but if it were the difference between a podium at a worlds I'd most definately use it.

After one protest where I did the correct thing and avoided a collision I was told at the end of the protest (which I won) by the protest chair - "next time make our life a lot easier and bring back paint......"

Cheers,
Tiger Mike

Re: F-18 Worlds, Day Four [Re: WindyHillF20] #99577
02/23/07 05:06 PM
02/23/07 05:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 337
Victoria, Australia
C2 Mike Offline
enthusiast
C2 Mike  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 337
Victoria, Australia
Quote
Rules of the road are avoid a collision at all cost.


It is no such thing. It is to avoid a collision if reasonably able to do so and even then there are a few "buts".

Cheers,
Tiger Mike

Re: F-18 Worlds, Day Four [Re: scooby_simon] #99578
02/23/07 06:11 PM
02/23/07 06:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Hey Simon -

I bet Greg would have gybed, except I think he was on the lay for the finish line and capsized right in front of it. It was a real bummer. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
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