Anyone hear any results from the Area D-North Alter Cup qualifier held this past weekend at Nigel's place in GA? Lots of discussion before the event about 1-up F16 handicap numbers.

Rescheduled due to lack of wind.

That's too bad. It is tough on the organizers and competitors to have a redeux. Tends to happen at times on our Southeastern US inland lakes. Thanks for the update.

Any idea if they got any racing in?

Not sure what counted but some pics are here, very light air, F16s at the windward mark wih A Class - - - adios downwind: http://www.twinhulls.com/07notaregatta

we got 4 races in 2 sat, 2 sunday. Wind came and went multiple times in each race. The pics do not show the drifting times as often as they were. Olie kicked some big boat butt on the blade solo winning the thing with i think 3 bullets. I had moments of doing ok followed by the saying hey guys wait for me. It was however a great weekend. The blades really do well in the light stuff with the f 18s and even the A cats.
Think we might have made enough of an impression to have some of the sailors consider buying blades.
Well part two is the end of sept. I kinda hope the winds are light again (more times we do this the more I get great food at Nigels, where the steaks were great):)

So... if you got four races in... and Oli won on a blade... How could it be rescheduled?

Did the SI's have a wind minimum and since you did not have that breeze the races were unofficial? Is that kosher!

No to be an offical alter cup qualifier it has to be 5 races total. We all agreed to that at the start of the weekend. Olie will just kick butt again.

Hmm... I think for an event to serve as a qualifier the minimum is 3 races. (That is how I wrote the Area C's qaulifier) Are you saying that the SI's were modified before the race and posted to make it 5 races to count as a regatta and everyone involved agreed to this?

that was the agreement. Nigel asked before we ever hit the water if anyone would object if the wind did not work out if the qualifier could be rescheduled instead of forcing people to race in dead air on an incredible hot day. No one cared. He had even called around before asking if people would still show even if it was not a qualifier since the wind looked so bad on the forcast. Well everyone still wanted to show, so no reason not to have the event. It was the not-a-regatta regatta. Olie got a framed pic for first place, and did not seem to mind about not being the alter cup qualifier. We all just wanted to sail some and have a great weekend which we did. Just lucky to get to do it again.

So what rating did the UNI guys end up using?

well at first they were doing the blade rating which is straight 2 up rating. And we were still correcting out over them (olie did it boat for boat, I did it on correction). Then they realized the mistake and redid it all on the uni rig rating, but I did not see the final results with those numbers. They are suppose to still send the results into the portsmouth people so more data can be tabulated.

Jody is being modest. He finished 2nd. The intent before the regatta was to use 67.1 for uni.

If US Sailing is going to leave the F16U rating on the books, then we are obligated to use it (my opinion). F16 Uni's at Juana's are using 67.1, since we'll be 1 short of a class and wil lbe in Portsmouth.

The 67 rating will not stay long on the books as these boats are preforming better then anyone thought. Sailing out to the course the first day Olie and I were sailing along with Jake on his F18 and Mike on his. WE started to move ahead of them slightly on a close reach and Jake yelled over to mike "you know we have to give them time". Made me smile. Love to see the shorter boats do so well with the longer boats. From looking at the numbers and the little personal observation i have in most everything but heavy wind we should be pretty well matched with the f18s.

And tom where did you get that 2nd from? I knew i was second after the first 2 races but thought I had dropped some after the last 2 races. Damn I am kinda proud of myself. Hope the new portsmouth numbers never come out! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I told Tom that Oley told me that Suellen told him that Jody got second. So way to go!

Humm, I remember a few of us argueing about a superior performance for many years now.

Hell, quite a few of us have even been racing at a much faster handicap for many years now.

67 for the 1-up F16 is just waaaaaaay to kind a rating. Outside of the USA these boats are raced against the F18 rating or very close to it, and have been for many years now. In effect they are raced of 62.4 (=F18) and as such 7.3 % faster. That is quite alot, no less then 4 and halve minutes per hour of racing. And even at that rating a few races are won by F16's.

Our experience overhere is that the F16 performance is indeed on a par with the F18's, assuming equal level of skills between the crews. The F16 1-up has its sweet spots, just like the A's and can under some conditions even be expected to do better then the F18's. Although not by much.

Two weeks ago I raced doublehanded with a skipper I only sail with once or twice a year. We were on an Alter Cup Blade F16 with a Glaser suit of sails. I couldn't believe the upwind speed we had. Together we tip the scales at 160 kg (= 355 lbs) and we were double trapping upwind, going like stink. I was highly impressed by the upwind speed of these Alter Cup Blade. Glaser has made an excellent suit of sails and I now understand why this combination (Blade/Glaser) made such an impression upwind on the Alter Cup crews. Anyway, that fleet had 20 boats in it and we came in 7th overall, ahead of a good number of F18's. Despite the fact that we had lost some serious ground on the downwind leg. I still have a big black bruse on my tigh as evidence.

In addition, seeing Matt Mac. racing doublehanded and Hans c.q. Marcus racing singlehanded I'm now totally convinced that the F18 rating is the right rating for the F16's. I always knew the F16 would be very close to the F18 in performance but now that the rigs (Glaser/Landenberger) and sailors are matching the boat it is beyond any doubt.

I'm sorry to say that the US PN ratings are just wrong and it will take far too long to see them converge. Afterall the F16 class is now 6 years old. What are we going to do ? What another 6 years before the ratings get anywhere near the true performance. Isn't a decade a bit too long for a rating to converge on the right number ?

Hell ! If we are unlucky then developments to F16 design will improve the F16 performance by larger amounts then the rating numbers converges each year, thus preventing the ratings from ever being right.

I say we make a real effort as a class to get some relalistic US PN ratings.

The committee needs to decide whether they want 1 rating or 2 ratings for the class. Then we as a class must request with force to "split the difference" between the current F16 numbers and the F18 number and have the convergence proces restart from that point.

Those new ratings will still be to slow but at least we won't be wasting another 5 years in covering the first 2 rating points with the (very small) adjustment steps.

Surely the rating committee will be open to such an suggestion ?

US F16 class committee, is this something you guys can run with ?

Wouter

You mean like this :










And the lead after rounding the downwind mark. Look for the Blade F16 in the back ground !

We can also see the bows of the second Blade F16 on the left.





Very nice pictures indeed. Thanks the photographer for us, please !

Wouter

Is that an A-sail with Blade hulls or just a Blade sticker on the A-cat?

Gill

it is a vectorworks sticker, and the A was made by them.

Vectorworks marine makes two types of beach catamarans :

-1- Blade F16
-2- Bimare XJ A-cat

Both of which are fitted with the same Vectorworks Marine logo for small racing cats.

Wouter