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#129877 - 01/27/08 08:17 AM uni optimized  
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fin. Offline
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Okay! I got no serious offers to buy my Blade so I'll be around for a while. I'll try again in a year or so.

Who is a serious uni sailor? What are your thoughts on optimizing for 1-up?

My biggest problem is getting back on the boat! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> This can be a serious safety issue and swimming is slow. To cure the problem I'm considering a length of webbing (a strap) slung under the spinnaker bag to use as a boarding ladder.

Additionally, handling the spin in anything near 20 knots is difficult for me. I'm considering leaving the whole mess on shore in 20+.

Comments?

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#129878 - 01/27/08 09:13 AM Re: uni optimized [Re: fin.]  
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Gilo Offline
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I can believe that hoisting the spin 1-up is difficult in 20+ conditions, but I do believe that the boat behaves much better with the spin, especially in heavier winds.

Gill


Falcon F16 - BEL666
Boats: TheBoatShop.be
Stories: bladef16.blogspot.com
#129879 - 01/27/08 09:37 AM Re: uni optimized [Re: fin.]  
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Pete,

I find that "hoisting" oneself onto the boat from the front port crossbeam works best for me. I grab the port hull and the cross beam then use the buoyancy from the water (ie I push down into the water, then pull up as high as possible). At this point you need strong(er) triceps (do dips between chairs while watching your favorite TV show).


USA 777
#129880 - 01/27/08 09:39 AM Re: uni optimized [Re: Gilo]  
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fin. Offline
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Hoisting is not where my problem lies. It is in gybing and sheeting.

Sheeting in heavy air, for an entire day, leads to fatigue, which in turn leads to poor decision making, which leads to injury. (I still have a stress related injury incurred in October or November which was caused primarily by fatigue and bad judgement.)

A poorly timed gybe ends in upset, resulting in too much "house keeping" to get back into competition.

To be succinct, the boat handles better when the spin is handled properly. Poor spinnaker handling takes me out of competition.

Last edited by Tikipete; 01/27/08 09:44 AM.
#129881 - 01/27/08 09:49 AM Re: uni optimized [Re: tback]  
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fin. Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

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Quote
Pete,

I find that "hoisting" oneself onto the boat from the front port crossbeam works best for me. I grab the port hull and the cross beam then use the buoyancy from the water (ie I push down into the water, then pull up as high as possible). At this point you need strong(er) triceps (do dips between chairs while watching your favorite TV show).


I've seen you "porpoise" out of the water many times. I can't do that. I don't doubt that strength is an issue, but so are arm and torso length.

Being short is a bitch! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Being fat doesn't help either, but I'm back on track in that department.

Last edited by Tikipete; 01/27/08 09:52 AM.
#129882 - 01/27/08 11:33 AM Re: uni optimized [Re: fin.]  
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Wouter Offline
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Personally, I would sail the boat without the spi gear if you favour that in strong winds. I do that myself now and then for various reasons.

Spinnaker sailing in 20 knots is all about the state of the watersurface and being wel trained in the procedures. The latter you can only get sorted by doing alot of 1-up spi sailing in the 12-18 knots range. Each second you are able to execute the manouvre quicker leave less time for things to go wrong (gust hitting etc). Also "Boatspeed Is Everything" holds. When you slow down then things start hanging up or getting snagged. Practice, Practice, Practice.

The state of the watersurface is a given and you can't influence that. The more flat it is or the longer the wavelength the easier it all becomes.

When using a rope-ladder then use it near the hull. Otherwise you will swing only under the beam without getting up higher. If the ladder is lead down along the hull then the hull prevents this swinging and you can pull yourself up (while pushing off sideway agains the hull).

Other then that the best solution for high wind solo sailing is in my opinion T-foil rudders. I'm allowed to say that, but that is how I feel about it. A platform that is highly stabilized and have a much slowed down dive behaviour makes the boat alot more controllable.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#129883 - 01/27/08 12:00 PM Re: uni optimized [Re: Wouter]  
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fin. Offline
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So what are the ethics involved? Can I dash to the beach between races and rig/remove the spi. or use it on Saturday but not on Sunday?

#129884 - 01/27/08 12:08 PM Re: uni optimized [Re: fin.]  
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rig the spi and then "choose" when to use it.


USA 777
#129885 - 01/27/08 12:10 PM Re: uni optimized [Re: tback]  
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fin. Offline
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Explain please. I think there is too much drag to leave all that stuff up front and not use it. Hence the question.

#129886 - 01/27/08 12:23 PM Re: uni optimized [Re: fin.]  
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Wouter Offline
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As far as I can see the F16 class do not rule that you HAVE to use a spinnaker or even have one fitted. Basically it only limits what you can maximally use.

If your boat still measures in (overall weight) without the spi-gear then you can race without it. If not then just add a little weight (also allowed by the class rules). Of course you will be racing first in wins or of the fully fitting F16 rating despite the fact whether you are fully fitted or not.

I think the only minimum requirement stated in the F16 class rules is that your craft is at least 104 kg in 1-up mode and that you have a pair of rudders fitted. Also if you have daggerboards then they should also be a pair.

Other then that you can sail upside down if you think that that will make you faster.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 01/27/08 12:24 PM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#129887 - 01/27/08 12:34 PM Re: uni optimized [Re: Wouter]  
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fin. Offline
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Quote
. . .I think the only minimum requirement stated in the F16 class rules is that your craft is at least 104 kg in 1-up mode . . .
Wouter


Hadn't thought of that.

#129888 - 01/27/08 01:01 PM Re: uni optimized [Re: fin.]  
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single suit of sails.

TO me that means you cannot change your sail configuration between races. IE one dayers or two dayers. Start with spin end with spin.

If I were you, I would just rig and then choose to use it or not. Its too much of a pain to rig and de rig it. This way if the wind settles down to a more manageable speed for you, then you have it.

Its better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

#129889 - 01/27/08 02:12 PM Re: uni optimized [Re: Robi]  
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Quote
single suit of sails.

TO me that means you cannot change your sail configuration between races. IE one dayers or two dayers. Start with spin end with spin.

If I were you, I would just rig and then choose to use it or not. Its too much of a pain to rig and de rig it. This way if the wind settles down to a more manageable speed for you, then you have it.

Its better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.


I think in theory you could be forced to sail with all sails on board that you started the regatta with.

When you get to the windward mark, you can CHOOSE to hoist the Spi or not.

When sailing when it's very windy I have at times not hoisted ont Kite on the last lap as the rish / return was too high. Classic example was the last race of the First day of the Mumbles event last year. I was exhausted and Running second and decided that I might catch David who was in front, but there was a greater risk of me washing the sails.

If the boat behind me was in danger of catching e, I may have put the Spi up.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
#129890 - 01/27/08 07:09 PM Re: uni optimized [Re: Robi]  
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Lets not forget about this F16 rule :

1.11.3 Racing with fewer sails than those named for each configuration is permitted.

The rule concerning "a single suit of sails" only disallows a racer using multiple sails during a regatta, as in using more then one mainsail, jib or spinnaker sail. Or at least that was the intention when we wrote the rules.

In my opinion you can have one stamped suit of sails in your trailor box and choose what the put on your boat or used during a regatta.

Note however that this still doesn't explicetly allow you to change from 1-up to 2-up or the other way around. That is a change in crew make-up.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
#129891 - 01/27/08 07:32 PM Re: uni optimized [Re: fin.]  
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Stewart Offline
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Western Australia
huh??? put kite in the bag or not as you feel..

Its the skippers right to decide the equipment ..

#129892 - 01/27/08 08:01 PM Re: uni optimized [Re: Wouter]  
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Robi Offline
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Quote


Lets not forget about this F16 rule :

1.11.3 Racing with fewer sails than those named for each configuration is permitted.

The rule concerning "a single suit of sails" only disallows a racer using multiple sails during a regatta, as in using more then one mainsail, jib or spinnaker sail. Or at least that was the intention when we wrote the rules.

In my opinion you can have one stamped suit of sails in your trailor box and choose what the put on your boat or used during a regatta.

Note however that this still doesn't explicetly allow you to change from 1-up to 2-up or the other way around. That is a change in crew make-up.

Wouter
We had a small discussion about this, some understood it as if you start a race UNI rigged you finished UNI rigged, and by uni rigged I mean mainsail and spin (no jib) Same applies to sloop rig. I understand that, you cannot change from main/jib to main alone in a race series. IE The way it was done at the GC.

Where is the GC when all these questions and concerns pop up!!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

#129893 - 01/27/08 08:07 PM Re: uni optimized [Re: Robi]  
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Corksfloat Offline
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No one would ever protest you for sailing a more conservative race. On the right day, this can give you the winning edge.

Last edited by Corksfloat; 01/27/08 08:08 PM.
#129894 - 01/27/08 08:10 PM Re: uni optimized [Re: Robi]  
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I read it as you state the main ,jib & kite at the start of the regatta.. Unless there is an issue these are the sails one uses.. The intent originally was so we don't see the vast wardrobes of sails starting to appear.. Like the skiffs where up to 5 complete sets of sails & masts are found on every boat..

I have no issue personally, with someone deciding to only take the jib & kite out.. Even as a solo..
The only issue is weight.. But as long as the weight is still over the class limit .. who cares?


Stewart

#129895 - 01/28/08 02:13 AM Re: uni optimized [Re: Robi]  
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Quote
Where is the GC when all these questions and concerns pop up!!!


Away sailing for the weekend! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What was the question?
Seriously though, my reading of the rules is that an F16 uni carries a mainsail and spi with associated gear. As such it should weigh more than 104Kg. If you've got an optimised boat, taking the spi and gear off will take you below minimum weight and therefore you're no longer class legal. Anyhow, why would you put yourself in a position where you didn't have the kite available to you should you need it? Fit it irrespective of the weather and pull it or don't pull it dependent on your ability/confidence/courage/sailing situation!!!


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
#129896 - 01/28/08 06:23 AM Re: uni optimized [Re: Robi]  
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Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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Quote

We had a small discussion about this, some understood it as if you start a race UNI rigged you finished UNI rigged, and by uni rigged I mean mainsail and spin (no jib) Same applies to sloop rig. I understand that, you cannot change from main/jib to main alone in a race series. IE The way it was done at the GC.



I understand. I'm just inputting a historical note here, as in the reasoning that went behind the class rules as they are now. Of course the GC has the final say in these matters and indeed I have not seen eye to eye with their representatives on a few occasions. However, that still doesn't mean the intent of the rules as written down under my tenure chances.

You say that if you start as an "uni-rig then your finish as a uni-rig", in my opinion the F16 class rules do NOT rule in that way and never have done so either. You entlist yourself as a doublehanded crew or a singlehanded crew and that is how you race, UNLESS the RC or the other competitors allow you to change crew make up during the event. None of this prevents you (when 2-up) from not using a jib or something during a few races while using a jib during others. When singlehanding you can choose to bring your spi or or. That is what rule 1.11.3 is EXPLICITELY saying.

Why did we do it this way ? Because the F16 rules were formed to ONLY rule on the maximum performance of the entered boat, not the minimum performance. If you choose to race without a spinnaker or jib then the loss in performance is just a drawback in performance you have accepted yourself. Just like when you choose to race an overweight F16 like I do. Certainly we don't want anybody to be protested out of the racing because he is not using a spinnaker for example ?


Quote

I understand that, you cannot change from main/jib to main alone in a race series.


Accoording to the F16 class rules you actually can. Rule 1.11.3 explicetly states that you can without specifying any additional conditions; therefor you can always do that even during a regatta.


Quote

IE The way it was done at the GC.



I'm not sure that was the way it was done at the GC. I don't recall any SI that expressed any new regulations that way and even if it did then the SI would have become non F16 compliant and be void anyway. An effective protest of the RC could be launched on the existance of rule 1.11.3

The SI can't simply switch-off an explicet ruling on the official F16 rule set.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
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