Announcements
New Discussions
Where did everyone go?
by H17cat. 04/16/18 04:31 PM
2018 Florida 300 - Register Now!
by cyberspeed. 04/12/18 11:04 PM
Hull cover leakage
by samc99us. 04/12/18 08:28 AM
F16 Effect Crew Weight Solo and 2 Up
by Timbo. 04/11/18 12:15 PM
What the heck is this?
by Karl_Brogger. 04/10/18 06:24 PM
36th America's Cup
by Jake. 04/05/18 12:22 PM
Worrell 1000 Reunion Race
by cyberspeed. 04/02/18 06:24 PM
--Advertisement--
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Good history lesson -Herreshoff's cat #261481
07/18/13 08:33 AM
07/18/13 08:33 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 264
Ocean Springs, MS
Capt_Cardiac Offline OP
enthusiast
Capt_Cardiac  Offline OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 264
Ocean Springs, MS


Capt Cardiac
Ocean Springs Yacht Club
Sailor
Open 20 - More Cowbell
#5
Bimare 18HT Jav2 - Infidel
#5
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Good history lesson -Herreshoff's cat [Re: Capt_Cardiac] #261494
07/18/13 05:13 PM
07/18/13 05:13 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 127
Rock Hill,SC
KevinRejda Offline
member
KevinRejda  Offline
member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 127
Rock Hill,SC
Nice find Joe!


Kevin Rejda
Rock Hill, SC

Re: Good history lesson -Herreshoff's cat [Re: Capt_Cardiac] #261495
07/18/13 06:46 PM
07/18/13 06:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
That, and Dennis Connor's 1988 AC Cat's destruction of the bigger mono, is the reason why I transitioned from racing mono's, to cats.

I can't help but think these mega cats will inspire other mono racers to try cats as well.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Good history lesson -Herreshoff's cat [Re: Capt_Cardiac] #261496
07/18/13 08:03 PM
07/18/13 08:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 264
Ocean Springs, MS
Capt_Cardiac Offline OP
enthusiast
Capt_Cardiac  Offline OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 264
Ocean Springs, MS
The general sentiment towards cats hasn't changed a bit. I had a 12 yr old kid tell me his dad said that catamarans can't point. I just shake my head.


Capt Cardiac
Ocean Springs Yacht Club
Sailor
Open 20 - More Cowbell
#5
Bimare 18HT Jav2 - Infidel
#5
Re: Good history lesson -Herreshoff's cat [Re: Capt_Cardiac] #261509
07/19/13 07:59 AM
07/19/13 07:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
When I was a mono racer (30 years ago), I would only see Hobie 16's reaching back and forth across the harbor, until they flipped. Naturally we assumed that without dagger boards, they couldn't go upwind. It did not make me want to get on a Hobie 16 (in NH the ocean water is about 42 degrees in July!).

Then I got a ride on a Hobie 20 (thanks Craig!) and that really opened my eyes to what a well sailed, well designed, high performance cat could do speed wise, and pointing. Oh, and we didn't flip!

I still have trouble convincing non-sailors, or mono-only types, that cats really can go upwind, and go like a bat out of hell downwind with a spinnaker. I passed a couple of pontoon boats out on my lake last weekend when we had nice wind. The look on their faces was pretty funny.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Good history lesson -Herreshoff's cat [Re: Timbo] #261510
07/19/13 08:55 AM
07/19/13 08:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 908
Dublin, Ireland
Dermot Offline
old hand
Dermot  Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 908
Dublin, Ireland
Hi Tim, Hope you're all keeping well. I haven't been on this site for a while now. I come back and find that "Someone on the internet is wrong" shocked . Actually the first catamaran that was launched and raced in the Western World was Sir William Petty's "Simon & Jude". It raced in Dublin Bay, Ireland in 1662 cool.
I'm heading to the Inland Champs in Blessington now. Talk again smile


Dermot
Catapult 265
www.catamaran.ie
Re: Good history lesson -Herreshoff's cat [Re: Capt_Cardiac] #261512
07/19/13 10:41 AM
07/19/13 10:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 371
SE MI / NE IN
rehmbo Offline
enthusiast
rehmbo  Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 371
SE MI / NE IN
Google is our friend - you can find a short writeup about 40% down the page here: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/31179/31179-h/31179-h.htm

FTA
"The use of catamaran hulls, or “double-hulls,” has been periodically popular with ship designers since the time of Charles II of England. The earliest of such vessels known in the present day were four sloops or shallops designed 1673-1687 by Sir William Petty, who was an inventor in the field of naval architecture and received some attention from Charles II and from the Royal Society.

The first Petty experiment, the Simon & Jude, later called Invention I, was launched October 28, 1662. She was designed with two hulls cylindrical in cross section, each 2 feet in diameter, and 20 feet long. A platform connected the hulls, giving the boat a beam of a little over 9 feet. She had a 20-foot mast stepped on one of the crossbeams connecting the hulls, with a single gaff sail. In sailing trials she beat three fast boats: the King’s barge, a large pleasure boat, and a man-of-war’s boat. This [Pg 153]“double-bottom,” also called a “sluiceboat” or “cylinder,” was later lengthened at the stern to make her 30 feet overall."

Interesting. Almost fits the B-Class dimensions


Jeff R

H18, C2 USA1193
cramsailing.com
crescentsail.com
Re: Good history lesson -Herreshoff's cat [Re: Capt_Cardiac] #261513
07/19/13 10:44 AM
07/19/13 10:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
Hey Dermot! Great to hear from you! Glad to hear you are still alive, and well I hope!

Have fun in Blesso, tell them I said Hi. I wish I could get back there. We fly right over every time we go to Dubai, which was just last Monday for me. I keep hoping the airplane will break and we can divert into Dublin.

I hope the weather Gods are good to you all this weekend.

Have fun!


Blade F16
#777
Re: Good history lesson -Herreshoff's cat [Re: Capt_Cardiac] #261517
07/20/13 09:05 AM
07/20/13 09:05 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,946
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,946
Herreshoff Museum in Bristol, RI is worth some time if you're ever out this way.

Mike

Re: Good history lesson -Herreshoff's cat [Re: Timbo] #261519
07/20/13 01:39 PM
07/20/13 01:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,052
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline
old hand
cyberspeed  Offline
old hand
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,052
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
Timbo, which Craig are you talking about? Not too many of us sailing.


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
www.TeamCyberspeed.com
Endurance Series
www.SailSeries.com
Re: Good history lesson -Herreshoff's cat [Re: cyberspeed] #261529
07/21/13 04:10 PM
07/21/13 04:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 908
Dublin, Ireland
Dermot Offline
old hand
Dermot  Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 908
Dublin, Ireland
Scroll down here and read the full story of the Simon & Jude re-build by Hal Sisk in 1991: http://www.romseynet.org.uk/civicsociety/news/1992/1992autumn45.pdf
I visited the workshop during the build and saw her sailing at the Tall Ships event in Dublin.


Dermot
Catapult 265
www.catamaran.ie
Re: Good history lesson -Herreshoff's cat [Re: cyberspeed] #261533
07/21/13 07:04 PM
07/21/13 07:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,035
Sebring, Florida.
Originally Posted by cyberspeed
Timbo, which Craig are you talking about? Not too many of us sailing.


The one who popped my Catamaran Sailing Cherry, on his H20 back in about....1995? That was Craig Hackett, he's up in New Hampshire, sailing a new Nacra F16 now.


Blade F16
#777
Re: Good history lesson -Herreshoff's cat [Re: Capt_Cardiac] #261548
07/22/13 09:26 AM
07/22/13 09:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Originally Posted by Capt_Cardiac
The general sentiment towards cats hasn't changed a bit. I had a 12 yr old kid tell me his dad said that catamarans can't point. I just shake my head.


Yeah, and cruising cats (aka floating condo-zillas) don't help with that argument, "pointing" at 50 degrees TWA.

The rest of the multihulls, however, probably point just as well as monos once they're up to speed (apparent wind, etc).. or if they don't they can outperform on VMG....


Jay

Re: Good history lesson -Herreshoff's cat [Re: rehmbo] #261549
07/22/13 09:28 AM
07/22/13 09:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Originally Posted by rehmbo
In sailing trials she beat three fast boats: the King’s barge, a large pleasure boat, and a man-of-war’s boat. This [Pg 153]“double-bottom,” also called a “sluiceboat” or “cylinder,” was later lengthened at the stern to make her 30 feet overall."

Interesting. Almost fits the B-Class dimensions


How many cannons could she carry? Long nines or eighteens?


Jay

Re: Good history lesson -Herreshoff's cat [Re: Capt_Cardiac] #261555
07/22/13 10:55 AM
07/22/13 10:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
Carpal Tunnel
pgp  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
http://www.runningtideyachts.com/multihull/Amaryllis.html

" In form the entry seems to have been perfectly fair, since the yachts were taxed only according to length, and were permitted as much extension in all other directions as their owners chose. But in fact, it is clearly unfair to race boats of radically different models, and built for entirely different purposes, against each other. The model of the Amaryllis evidently would not do for a sea going vessel, and nothing in the way of the practical 'improvement of naval architecture ' which yachts and yacht clubs are supposed to promote, can come out of a flying proa. But on the other hand, none of the boats engaged in the race with her are supposed to be good for much except to engage in such races. The tendency of yacht-racing is everywhere to-produce 'racing machines;' in ENGLAND by narrowing, deepening and ballasting yachts out of all reason, and here by making broad and shallow 'skimming-dishes.' In either case the result is not a good type of sea-going vessel. So the owners of racing-machines have really no reason to complain that somebody should invent a racing-machine to beat them. This the inventor of the Amaryllis has done. It behooves the owners of the large schooners, however, to take counsel together lest somebody should build an Amaryllis a hundred feet long and convert their crafts into useless lumber. It is a matter quite as important as keeping the America's Cup, and may demand quite as ingenious and elaborate devices as were put in force against Mr. ASHBURY."

Last edited by pgp; 07/22/13 11:10 AM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: Good history lesson -Herreshoff's cat [Re: pgp] #261592
07/23/13 09:36 AM
07/23/13 09:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 506
Petten Netherlands
N
northsea junkie Offline
addict
northsea junkie  Offline
addict
N
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 506
Petten Netherlands
Talking about catamaran history, reminds me on the " patin a vela" which I owned and sailed twenty years ago in South-France.

[Linked Image]

The story is that the first protypes of these cats were already tried by spanish munks between 1800 and 1900.
Later-on in the beginning of 1900 the rump shape as it is still today, was developed in the northern part of Spain (catalonie).

The special thing about this cat is the lack of rudders.

You have to move the lateral point of the hulls with your weight and you can shift the point of effort of the special shaped sail a bit with the sheethandling.

So tacking means going forward with all the crew weight and sheeting in. While jibing means sheeting out and going with your weight as far as possible to the stern. (And helping with a feet in the water for passing the dead-point).

So far before windsurfing was "invented", the used steering mechanism, was already existing and used for more then 100 years on a cat design.
The only real invention on the windsurfboard was the mast-joint to the board, which could be directed in every direction.

I have to search for some old holiday pictures


ronald
RAIDER-15 (homebuilt)

hey boy, what did you do over there, alone far out at sea?..
"huh....., that's the only place where I'm happy, sir.
Re: Good history lesson -Herreshoff's cat [Re: northsea junkie] #261593
07/23/13 10:00 AM
07/23/13 10:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,296
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,296
South Carolina
We have a sales agent for our company based in Spain that is very proficient in these boats. I think he won their nationals a few years ago.


Jake Kohl
Re: Good history lesson -Herreshoff's cat [Re: Jake] #261594
07/23/13 10:04 AM
07/23/13 10:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 506
Petten Netherlands
N
northsea junkie Offline
addict
northsea junkie  Offline
addict
N
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 506
Petten Netherlands
[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/93155065@N06/9352398916/[/img]

don't understand why it will not show up

So click on:
flickr.com

and also for the next:
flickr.com

Last edited by northsea junkie; 07/23/13 11:43 AM.

ronald
RAIDER-15 (homebuilt)

hey boy, what did you do over there, alone far out at sea?..
"huh....., that's the only place where I'm happy, sir.
Re: Good history lesson -Herreshoff's cat [Re: Capt_Cardiac] #261596
07/23/13 10:24 AM
07/23/13 10:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,946
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,946
What is the Ashbury rule?

Mike

Re: Good history lesson -Herreshoff's cat [Re: northsea junkie] #261604
07/23/13 11:42 AM
07/23/13 11:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,296
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,296
South Carolina
Originally Posted by northsea junkie
[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/93155065@N06/9352398916/[/img]

don't understand why it will not show up

So click on:
flickr.com


you need to get the final jpg file to link to. (view all sizes, then right click and copy the image url). Flickr makes hot-linking tough.


Jake Kohl
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 8 guests, and 266 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
johnryankidd, Dinzeo, Crockett, mat_car, Sofafan
7767 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Timbo 5
Jake 3
phill 1
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,292
Posts266,504
Members7,767
Most Online554
May 12th, 2017
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1.1
(Release build 20180111)
Page Time: 0.022s Queries: 16 (0.002s) Memory: 1.1288 MB (Peak: 1.7692 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-04-20 04:53:33 UTC