There are many books and websites that go deep into details I have long since forgotten, and I'm not about to get too deep here, I have things to do, but when it comes to a comercial airliner getting off a runway, it's not only the lift from the wing, there is also some -push- (we call it thrust) from the 2 (or 3 or 4) engines. The basic equation is; Lift + Thrust > Drag + Weight. The Thrust is added to the lift, to overcome the weight plus drag.

In a large comercial airliner, on take off, as you pull the nose up, (at say, 150 kts) the engines are now pointing down, at the runway, and they are "thrusting" (no dirty jokes here) the jet into the air, that thrust adds to the lift of the wings and helps get the airplane into the sky. Also, at takeoff, the wing is in a "high lift" configuration, with leading edge devices and flaps, all of which add to the camber of the wing. As the airplane accelerates after getting airborne, the flaps and slats are retracted to the high speed configuration.

And no comercial airliner wings that I am aware of are rated to much more than 360 knots (I'm talking indicated airpseed, and not the old, faster, 727's that could go above 380, but the newer stuff, since the 757) so the "have to go 400 to get airborn" remark isn't valid, we never go near 400 indicated, even though the true airspeed at altitude is about 480knots, or Mach .83, our indicated airspeed is only about 250 at cruise (35,000').

You have probably seen the videos on YouTube of the fighters going straight up, doing all kinds of impossible aerobatics. That's usually done on thrust, not lift. If you have an engine that puts out 50,000 lbs. of thrust in a plane that only weighs 40,000 lbs. you can put it on a rack, point it straight up, and launch it. No lift coming off the wings at all. Throw a rock striaght up, see? All thrust, no wings or lift needed.

My Supersonic Aero instructor once said, "If you put a big enough engine on it, you can make a barn door fly...but they had to put two of them on the F4!" (The F4 was known as the lead sled, big engines, kind of heavy, stubby wings) Take a look at the F104 sometime too, one of the fastest fighter jets of it's time (Viet Nam era) All engine, tiny wings, fast as hell, all on thrust.

Even with the propeller type aircraft there are many unlimited competition type acro planes that can just about hang on their prop, suspended in mid air, no airflow over the wing yet it can still do all kinds of stuff, so flying isn't limited to lift generated by the wing. Thrust is a big factor. The Space shuttle on launch has no airflow over the wing as it lifts off the pad, yet it still lifts off the pad.

Last edited by Timbo; 12/31/07 10:54 PM.

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