Originally Posted by Isotope42
Originally Posted by brucat
Damage always, most definitely, sucks. It also opens the door for a RRS 14 protest (yes, the rule where a ROW boat CAN be penalized for collision with damage). We all know that anything can (and does) happen in the room, even when the judges aren’t biased and think they have a slam dunk solution.

If there is a possibility that injury or damage will result in a claim (insurance, legal, personal, or otherwise), then it is absolutely vital to have a protest hearing. Although the protest committee (in the USA) does not adjudicate any claim for damages (see USS prescription 67(b)), responsibility for damages is based on fault as determined by the rules (see USS prescription 67(c)). Without a finding of facts from a protest hearing, insurance companies (and the courts) are unable to determine fault. Even with the facts, they are notoriously bad at applying the rules, so PC has to do that too.

If you think Protest Committee made a mistake in conducting the hearing or in applying the rules, then file an appeal. If you think the Appeals Committee got it wrong (and yes, I've seen it happen), appeal to a higher authority.

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It’s not about giving anyone else a pass. I’ve witnessed (and actually prevented) an attempt to take action against an entire fleet of cats due to the perceived actions of three boats (the threatened action was to uninvited the fleet ever again). ...

There are times when, for the sake of getting along, it's best to just let things slide. On the other hand, one sometimes needs to protest, even if it's unpopular. Remember the Basic Principle of Sportsmanship and the Rules, which states "competitors in the sport of sailing are governed by a body of rules that they are expected to follow and enforce".

I once protested a boat racing one-design in a different fleet. The other skipper was very upset and couldn't understand why I protested, as I had nothing to gain by it. He yelled and complained (as did some of his other fleet members) until I finally asked him "do you really think it's ok to break the rules, just because the other boat is in a different fleet?".

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...when we’re guests at someone else’s party, we have to be careful, or risk not being asked to come back.

If an event organizer threatened to exclude my fleet because we enforced the rules, then I suspect that's an event we would not attend again anyway.

Regards,
Eric


Eric,

What do you do when time to file a protest has long since expired (still same day) and there was damage on the race course? Out of country btw, so international jury that has other things on their mind.

I agree with everything that Jeff has said. We regularly share courses with A-Cat's and other spinnaker beach cats, no issues. 505's are generally fine, but haven't had any encounters where we are both wired up downwind. It's the boats that are in-between a J/24, 22 etc. and us in speed that are an issue (larger trimarans and J/70's fall into this category). All manageable with some planning and rules knowledge. The lack of basic rules knowledge, even at the pointy end of the F18 fleet is appalling, and we really need to correct this as a fleet going forward.

As to Annapolis to Oxford, it's an event I do because of the format and no other reason. We had a sizable fleet of beach cats turn out last year, and you know some of the issues that prevailed. If it were up to me, NASS wouldn't take entries for boats without a spinnaker (i.e old Prindles and Hobies that show up for one event a year), for liability issues, but I am also torn because the more boats the better. I think getting some of these teams onto a more modern platform as crew would be beneficial to all. As to plucking monohull sailors into our fleet, I think we've managed to pick up one or 2 in the past 3 years of A to O's. Most of the monohulls don't respect our rights as racing vessels on the course, and few come up and talk after the race. There are some really cool guys on the faster boats, and I would like to make our boat available for rides after the race ends.

Any other thoughts on how to get more people in the fleet? What events are popular and why?


Scorpion F18