>>Try thinking of it this way Wouter. No 14's bother fitting kites.

Mystere 4.3 , H14 max in the US, Hobie dragoon (Youth class) in EU are all using kites. Than ofcourse the various 14teen mono that most kid go through when working themselfs up in sailing. 420, 29-er etc.

I really don't think that US and EU have any significant 14 foot fleet anymore. They are all that. Maybe Aus has great 14 foot regatta's but on a global scale this is not the case.


>>At our 14ft only regattas, everyone gets back to the beach roughly at the same time after a great race where everyone has a great time on boats which don't cost two arms and a leg to own and don't take *any* extra time to rig or de-rig, and because they are 14ft only regattas, it doesn't matter a squirt what the bigger spinnaker boats are doing.


If there are such good 14 foot fleet anyway than why start a F14 class at all ? Then we shouldn't mess with a good thing.

>>Sorry Wouter I thought that's what we do here?

That is indeed what we do here. However 20 min extra time for the spi is not realistic. That fact remains unchanged.

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I think even the A-cats themselves will become a victim in time. Either that or they too must incorporate a spi.


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Please explain???
They'd have to be insane to go down that road. IMHO it would destroy the class.


I did just that in my former post. Because the A-cat get wacked on the race course by spi boats. Part of the A-cat class attractiveness was that they were the outright fastest boats around. Now with spinnakers they have big trouble finishing ahead of low tech boats. Their advantage upwind is nearly never enough to compensate for the spi advantage of the other boats. I may destroy the class but then again the same story went around about the Tornado's changing rigs and the Mossie changing rigs. Looks how both have bounched back or are now bounching back.

A-cat lived as long as they did but addapting to the changing situation and incorporating new technologies. I'll bet hords of people predicted that the Carbon mast would destroy the A-cat class as well. If the A-cat stayed as the 70's timber cat with alu mast than it would have died out long ago. Adaptation and modifications are keywords in survival.



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It is exactly this exclusive "I want my own start" mindset that fragmented the cat scene. Therefor it will not provide a route back to the glory times.


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Not logical.


Let me explain. When looking at processes that degrade or weaken it can be said that the path that got you to where you are now will never get you back to the old situation. Therefor there is no point in trying to be even better at what you have been doing all along. If it didn't work yesterday or the day before than chances are that it won't today or tomorrow.



>>You miss my point. I'm talking about 14ft only regattas where all 14ft classes compete together.


I would like to have all F16 fleet of large numbers tomorrow as well, but that is not going to happen. We need to grow into that. Without a growth path you are going nowhere.

Excuse me for using your 430 example on you.

If the 430 is such a great boat then why aren't there big fleets of it sailing all over the world ?

If you think the solution is to be better at what you have been doing till now than I think you are deluding yourself that change is about to come.


>>We've been doing it for 12years. We get 50+ 14's of various designs on the start line. We'll be doing two regattas this season and hopefully a GP type circuit not too far down the track.

Great, Than stick to it and give F14 a boot. However I don't know of any other places in the world that mirrors this.

So the scene in my eyes is not that rosy. It is more likely on the path of extinction where a pocket is holding out valiantly in Australia.



>>Large fleets of reasonably inexpensive, uncomplicated boats of various designs competing against each other on a common course. What could be better than that?


I don't know, are buyers running down your door yet ? (Sorry to so harsh in my comments but I think you are getting my line of though)

Please note that although my comments may be harsh I give them hoping to make the F14 a succces.

Wouter