Hallo Stephen,

As you must have noticed I did not disagree with the truth full parts of you post, like were you claim that the Marstrom Tornado has a competitive life of abou 6 to 7 years. We are often in agreement.

The parts were our post differ is in what that means.

So there is not point in fighting over points that we actually agree on.


>>Before calling BS, you should find out who made the claims, where it was and how it was measured.


Well,

Over the years the typical reply to information and proof has always been :

"However we never had a GPS on board and nobody was timing us or any others. ... However despite not measuring our speed or others...... It was F*%$ing quick and would not doupt it was close to 30 knots peak."

So it felt fast but was it also fast.

I will give you a great example of why actually measuring this stuff means something.

I do class 5 landyachting, as you know, driving that baby over the beach feels like flying at 150 miles an hour, it really does. However it only goes 55 miles an hour (48 knots). It sure FEELS like more but it really isn't.

No I can got around and tell everybody that 150 miles an hour is much closer to the truth and than blast somebody who has done a little more speed measuring as being a fool for not having the data that proofs my FEELINGS as being correct. And we all know of course that absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence, Right ? I'm also a true millionair, have the most beautiful women of the world next to me and beat Schumacher on the track. But then again, I never check my bank balance, compare my wife to other women in the world or pay attention to where Schumy finished relative to me. Surely this means that I spoke the truth and nothing but the truth right ?

So , with all due respect the pointy end of the matter is that we simply do not have any dependable data that proof the claims of 33 knots and over on any course, some data we do have suggests significantly less data on other boats as good as proofs it is less, and now we must believe that that is all crap because you felt like going much faster. What ever happened to the time-honoured tradition of proof.

I'm trully at a loss here. I mean will you go up to a Tornado class measurer and start an argument when he wants to weight you boat before an official race because he doesn't trust your feel of the boat last time you had lifted it ? I mean what is this guy on about, last time you lifted the boat it sure FELT like alot more heavy than class minimum weight !

All I'm saying is that official claims and statements without clear proof should not be made. I both deceives the unaware novice and degrades the class about which the statements are made. It is also bad for our reputation in general, as cat sailors. So why do it ? Isn't 23.48 knots good enough ? Must we take some artistic license to make our top speeds look better ? Does such a thing change the thrill of sailing fast ? And please note I give every class a hard time on these aspects, monos, landyachts and other catamarans classes.

There is one thing that strikes me though. F18 class never makes statements like these and I say they should be recommended for that especially when noting that they can many big statements and still be truthful.

I will tell you a very sobering story from myself and other like Jake Kohl and I think Dave Lennard (if I have this name right). We sail respectively Taipan F16, Nacra F18 and a US I-20 (last = the kind that beats Tornado's on elapsed time). We all brought GPS units along on various occasions an NO ONE of us every recorded dependable top speeds above 25 knots and average speeds (over 500 mtr minimum) above 20 knots. Most often they are in the range of 22 and 18. The similarity between these different designs is striking. And yes we all have data on a particular good day when we felt that we were doing 30 knots at least each time it turned out to be, well, around 20 knots. You should do some measuring like this yourself.

Because only then you have any ground to come back and write :

"Before calling BS, you should find out who made the claims, where it was and how it was measured."

Again, with all due respect to both you and the the truth,

Wouter