Baltic,
Go to
http://www.frappr.com/formula16classgroupand look for Europe (move map to the right). Here Holger Siebke has put himself on our F16 World map, he will be sailing a Blade F16 in 2006. His location is Kiel, Schleswig-Holstein (Germany). That should be quite close to you. Maybe you two should make contact, it is always fun to have another with the same boat type around ?
My local NACRA-dealer told me that the 2006 model of the F17 will be about 10 to 15kg lighter than the previous one. Does anybody have an idea how Nacra is going to achieve that?
I think this dependents on what they are calling "the previous model". It appears that you will have to look for the heaviest I-17 model ever made to be able to claim 15 kg weight reduction.
Les Gallagher (sparky) is giving you the numbers as I know them to be as well.
2000 I17R : about 345 lbs = 156 kg
2005 I17R : Lightest measured = 145 kg
Texel handicap system measured the various versions at :
nacra inter 17 (alu mast): 155 kg
nacra inter 17 +jib (alu mast): jib 158 kg
nacra inter 17R (carbon mast) : 151 kg
nacra inter17 XL (alu mast) : 155 kg
These two sources seem to more or less agree with eachother. Although 10 kg weight reduction seems alot more likely then 15 kg lighter.
How are they going to achieve that ? Well some of it will be because the alu mast is replaced by an carbon one. Typically this saves 3 to 4 kg and indeed if we look at the Texel weight numbers we see that 4 kg is the difference between the older (2st model) alu masted I-17 and the newer F17 (4th model in the series) Actually the name F17 in not used by the European importer on his website
www.nacraeurope.com , they are using the name "Nacra 17" and it appears that this version in not the same as the US nacra F17. It is quoted as having less mainsail area (15.5 sq. mtr. in stead of 16.48 sq. mtr.)
I'm not really sure were they win the additional kg's. Here I can only guess and your guess is as good as mine.
Personally I'm sure that nacra could build the I-17R at 130 kg if they really wanted too. But having said this I really don't expect them to go below 140 kg, ever. But that is another topic or rather that is still outstanding challenge put to Nacra (and Hobie as well). We won't go there now.
and considering a new boat for the next season. My problem is that I want to sail the boat alone (about 75kg) as well as with a friend (together about 155kg), and the F17 seems to be the best compromise
I really disagree with this. The Formula 16 boats are already a better compromise in this respect. 35 kg's lighter and noticeably faster as reflected in the 4 point difference in the Texel handicap ratings. Also the F16 have seen alot more development over the years in both setups (singlehanding and doublehanding). By he way I also consider the Spitfires (135 kg and rated faster) to be a better compromise in this respect.
The alu masts on the F16's are 3 kg lighter than the alu masts on the nacra 17's, so the difference between the carbon mast on the Nacra 17 and the alu mast on some of the F16's is expected to be only 1 kg. This is far less than one normally expects. Carbon F16 masts are again 3 kg to 4 kg lighter then the F16 alu masts, therefor these will be 2 kg to 3 kg lighter than the carbon nacra 17 masts. For example the Stealth marine carbon mast is 13 kg when fully fitted and that is 7 kg lighter then the alu FX-one mast and 4 kg lighter than the alu F16 masts.
For singlehanding I can say from personal experience that those 35 kg weight difference in platform weight will make a very noticeable difference. In the way of doublehanding I can assure you that the F16's and spitfires have done alot more development. You will notice this in the way the boats feel and how well the sails have been optimized (= speed). I learned the price quote for the nacra 17 some months ago and I can assure you that the most modern F16, the Blade F16, will be seriously cheaper.
The nacra 17 is also advertised as a One-design class with hints to product stability and fair racing. However in the last 8 years we have seen no less than 5 different nacra 17 models coming out with noticeable differences in performance. And I'm talking about big differences like 3 sq. mtr. area in the mainsail (between model Inter-17 and Inter-17R for example). As a formula class we are often accused of having poor design stability but, really ! , we are absolute angles in comparison to this One-Designs class.
I'm sure the nacra 17 is a fine design and a good boat that will give you plenty of enjoyment, but I also feel that there are alternatives available that are just better in every single respect. So why not get the best option ? If you are interested in the F16 then read this :
European group Blade F16 Regards,
Wouter
