Does anyone here sail a Hobie Wave with the optional jib and traveler? I am wondering if my Wave with the above configuration is faster downwind by tacking when singlehanded. Or not.

The question of whether to go straight downwind or tack downwind can be quantified if you have a gps, a bridal vane, and a hand held wind meter. This can be put to rest very easily by looking at the numbers.

If you are on the water and want to know the wind speed, point your boat directly downwind according to your vane and check the wind meter. If it says 5 mph and the gps says 5 mph, adding them together gives the actual wind speed of 10 mph.

If you want to head off 45 degrees downwind, it will only pay in reduced time if your boat speed is greater than 7.1 mph. The longer distance is a product of the square root of 2, which is 1.414. Multiply 5 mph x 1.414 and you get 7.1 mph. Some cats will sail faster than this speed and some will not, but under these conditions, 7.1 mph is the magic number.

A Hobie 20 will absolutely beat that number. See page #7 here : http://www.hobiecat.com/support/pdfs/HobieU.pdf

I understand my Wave is going to be a close call, and I am very interested in performing this experiment in a variety of wind speeds in order to see if any conditions are favorable. Whether the Wave will benefit is unknown to me at this time. I am hopeful that the addition of the jib and the traveler will make enough difference to merit their cost and make downwind tacks worthwhile, but I am betting it will be a close call in winds from 4-12 mph.

I have 20 years experience in mono-hulls, but this is my first cat, so I appreciate any feedback from this group.

Loren

Any increase in speed by sailing at 45 degrees must more than offset the increased distance sailed to be "faster" from A to C mark.

yes, that is what he was saying.

So which is faster? Depends on the wind...

Best bet is to try sailing against other boats.
We have big fleets of Waves racing twice a week in a number of clubs.
Results: Sailing straight for the mark pays off almost every time (tacking off may get you in different wind where you could do better.., or you could do worse)
Sailing slight angles downwind can be of moderate benefit, but not much.
Angles of 45-degrees will lose you lots of boats.
That is why the official class course is a triangle, windward leeward; thus giving you two upwind legs, two reaches and only one downwind leg.
And we are toying with the idea of a course with no downwind legs.

The optional jib system by Hobie is not functional. The reason is that there is no way to tension the luff of the jib. And the spinnaker also does not work.

After a year or so of experimentation, I was able to get a lot more speed out of the Wave with the Hooter. You can go to www.waveclass.org where you will see a full story on it. I was actually able to make pretty good time downwind by tacking at angles with this configuration.
Good luck,
Rick

Thanks for the input Rick. I guess I will experiment for myself to confirm personally what you already know.

When I get a database put together I will post the results here. I am a numbers guy and I am always more comfortable looking at evidence on paper. There is not anyone locally that I know of who I can race against, so the gps and the wind meter will have to do the job for me.

Thanks again,

Loren

I fully agree with Rick.

In it's stock form or with any addition available from Hobie the Wave performs best dead downwind.

I was not aware of a traveler but I have moved the mainsheet attachment to the hull. There was small difference that helps going dead down wind.

I checked the downwind performance against other Waves and high level Sunfish and Lasers.

The problem with Hobie's headsails is they are not far enough forward. There is not enough gap between the mainsail and the headsails. The jib choke's off the mainsail when you try to point. The mainsail chokes off the spinnaker, if you try to go too deep and the spinnaker collapses, if you head up too much. I have never raced the spinnaker but the Hobie jib, in normal configuration, actually makes the boat slower. However, if you use a pole and attach the jib about 3-4 ft in front of the bow, it is a very powerful sail.

Downwind is the weakest point for the Wave. It just doesn't have enough sail area. Adding a hooter is like putting rocket motors under the Wave. However don't get the idea that the Hooter is an upwind sail. You can go to weather in very light air and close reach in light air. In anything over 10-12 it's a downwind sail.

If I get a chance I am going to race my wife's Wave in the Wed Nights, Houston, and do a little debugging on. With the hooter, it is a surprisingly fast boat.


Carl Bohannon

The Wave jib kit was never intended as a performance booster, it was designed for sail training, so in that regard... it does what it was intended to do. I gives a crew learning to sail experience with a head sail. Yes you can adjust luff tension on the jib as well. That is simply halyard tension.

The spinnaker on the other hand does work as a performance item, yet again it is small and designed purely as a training item. It is a small asymmetrical with pole.

Both were designed for beginners and for training... not you big experienced guys who are tying to juice up the ride for yourselves.

So, do the Hobie provided sail accessories work? Yes. For what they are intended.

Right on, Carl, except this part:
"However don't get the idea that the Hooter is an upwind sail. You can go to weather in very light air and close reach in light air. In anything over 10-12 it's a downwind sail."

In winds close to 15 it will really haul and point just as high as the stock. Hiking in over 10 is a MUST. Add a trapeze and I believe it could be used in any kind of wind.

My experimentation on the Super, Super Wave has met with some problems. It has a much longer pole (9'6") and the jib attaches way forward of the bows (5'6").
At the Steeplechase in Ohio 1.5 years ago I was staying with the lead Hobie 20...
...
...
...for about a 1/2 mile...

.. before the bow sprit exploded. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Then it was back to the drawing board.
Rick

Rick I do not want to hijack the thread but I have a Tiapan 4.9 I have put wings on. After reading your hooter raves I have decided that is the way to go rather than spinny.
What the inportant things in not creating an exploding rig up front?

Did you know that Rick also has a Taipan 4.9, with a Hooter? And I remember his Taipan 5.7 with the Hooter from several years ago. Where is that now Rick?

Yep, still have the 4.9 and sort of sold the 5.7 on time. Both used the Hooter very successfully.
Raced the 4.9 in the local club and had it honking really well.
On the 4.9, I am only using a 12' pole and sheet the Hooter from the sidestay. In winds up to about 8 mph I can still hold it down going to windward.
In very light air I sheet it in really hard and am able to outpoint and outrun my son's N6.0 and an I20 upwind.
With both the 5.7 and 4.9 I did use a dolphin striker on the pole, attached wires to the bows from the striker and the tip of the pole.., it has been very stable.
Rick

I will have to try again. I can do that using an old Tornado jib but apparently the new hooter setup has not been completly debugged.


To answer anouther question "bomb proofing" poles. I have not found a way. The best pole I have found is a 90% carbon windsurfing Wave mast. Don't drill any holes in it. I hold things in place by wrapping epoxy/fiberglass tape like a fishing rod. And always keep an eye out for a spare.

Rick I am a learner, you know I have to ask for a photo of that Taipan 4.9 rig...??

I am so happy aomeone has gone there before me and I am not nuts... well, i still might be nuts.

wings on a Taipan

Warbird:

What are the humps on front of hulls for? Did you put them there?

Doug

I knew I would get that.
I put them there. They are a salute to the Pacific cats fo two hundred years ago. The originals. It is just a style statement for when it is painted.

Rudder stocks have also been modified? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

no. the boat is early though. 005