Ok guys,
I'm looking to upgrade to a Nacra 5.0.
My current boat is a Hobie 16
My question is, what are the actual differences between keels and daggerboards? What are the pros and cons of one or the other?
Thanks

The daggerboards are more work, and you had better get them pulled up before you hit the beach at speed, BUT, they do make the boat steer quicker, tack much quicker and point higher, so there's the tradeoff. That is why you see most of the new racing boats have daggerboards, while the older style "fun" cats don't. I think you will like the difference and remember, you can always pull them up half way if it is blowing hard.

I think you might be the same guy as I have been talking to on the Hobie web site but I am not sure. I am sure you will like the 5.0!

yes gree, I'm the same guy.
Timbo, I think you're mistaken? The 5.0 doesn't have daggerboards, it has keels <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, I think the correct term is Skegs... but I could be very very wrong. I think the 5.0 is basically the same boat as the 5.2 just without the daggerboards and with skegs.

I forgot to mention that you can almost not pitchpole the 5.2 and I would imagine the 5.0 would be the same. I can drive my bows to the front crossbar and the boat will pop up and just keep running.

Whoops I've meant skegs whole time <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Gree, if you can do that, then why do you think the hobie is a better surf boat?

Also, check the hobie forum for my response.

Yes Johnny, you are correct. But I thought he was asking about daggerboards vs. Hobie 16 and I thought maybe he meant the 5.2, not the 5.0.

I have sailed a 5.0 (with Erez and Izzy in Tel Aviv) and it does indeed have skegs, not dagger boards, and it was great fun! But the differences between daggers or no-daggers is what I was trying to explain. Thanks for clearing it up though.

Timbo, he=me (I was the original poster)

Can you please explain how skegs work? Google didnt help. (I want to know skegs vs daggerboards)

The 5.0 is such a fun boat--get it and enjoy. The "skeg keel" of the 5.0 offers reasonable performance without the worries of boards when sailing on and off the beach or in shallow water. I loved sailing mine in the surf too. Also, if you sail the 5.0 upwind with the bows pretty low in the water you'll be able to point very well.

Skegs work in a similar way to dagger boards except with less efficiently. They are there to offer resistance of the hull against sideway slip predominantly when sailing to windward. The Hobie 16 has asymmetric shaped hulls, that are designed to generate windward "lift" due to that asymmetric shape when sailing to windward. The asymmetric shaped hulls have proven in practice to be no where near as efficient as dagger boards or centre boards for this purpose and the skeg keels are some where in between the performance of the asymmetric shape and the dagger boards.
Just a question – where did you get the idea that the Hobie 16 is a better surf cat than the NACRA? (Anyone who “surfs” a cat in a shore break either has more money than you can shake a stick at or is fairly silly or both).

Darryl,
I never said the hobie is a better surf cat?
Also, I didnt understand what you meant by "Anyone who “surfs” a cat in a shore break either has more money than you can shake a stick at or is fairly silly or both)"
?

Just that cats should be used for sailing and not surfing?

When I mentioned surf previously, I meant sailing through the surf to get deeper.

I must have misunderstood from this posted earlier.

Quote [if you can do that, then why do you think the Hobie is a better surf boat?]

I remember when people actually bought the advertising hype put out by Coleman’s that anyone could walk in off the street, buy a Hobie 14 or 16 and go and play in the surf with all the board riders and "have a Hobie day". There were people who actually did this and promptly wrote off their new cat when they rolled it in the surf.

The 5.0 handles much better in the surf then the H16. Sure more buoyancy for one thing but I believe the keels just handle better. No problem with the 5.0 nose diving it’s got good handling characteristics but it’s harder to tack and is therefore not as “loose in the juice” as one with boards. Kind of like the differences between a long-board vs. short-board in surfing. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I enjoy "surfing" cats. The H16 and H14 (w/jib) are easier to manuever in surf (short boards) than the N5.0 (long board) because they have more rocker, less buoyancy, and are more sensitive to weight placement--all reasons they are inferior to the N5.0 for general rec sailing. Anyway, the N5.0 is a lot of fun to surf. I've never lost a rig surfing my cat, but I did see my buddy toast his H14 rig in the surf once.

from what i was taught the difference between a skeg and a keel. a skeg would be similar to a fin on a surfboard. like a daggar but not moveable/retractable. a keel is incorporated in to the hull shape and design. thus making the nacra a keel boat. the term skeg is from the surfing world and probbally gets used in slang form from the early days of beach cats.

sorry but there were keels and skeg keels (skeg is only the shortened term for skeg keel) on boats centuries before there were surf boards. There are also retractable skegs set into keels used for over 100 years on shallow draft flat bottomed fishing skiffs and cutters.

Yes the banana shape will turn easier, but it’s a trade off, practical application has proven to me that too much rocker and you get rocking horse effect and a propensity to nose dive (both not an advantage in waves). <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

As a longtime surfer and sailor, I've had skegs and I've had keels. But I must say that when I had my 5.0 I had a "skeg keel."