Well, we're making good progress - we had a great day in moderate wind yesterday, and are beginning to feel competent.



Once my wife and I are really confident in our skills, we would like to take our 5 year old girl, who is begging to come with us. Where would be the best place for her to ride on a Prindle 16? In addition to the life jacket, is there anything else we can make it safe for her?



Probably not an issue until we've been out 8 more times, since we play it safe, but I'd like to be thinking ahead.



Jonathan

I am the wrong person to answer this post as I was looking for someone to sail in Galveston saturday durring TD Fay. However I have found that kids love the trap wire. i have to constantly tell my son(8) to stop swinging (in all directions) we took a 6 year old by putting her in a harness- as tight as it would go. and a short line to an extra ring tied to the trap wire and she hung between our legs out on the wire. had we gone over her hook would have come off with the adults. I sail conservativly and do not heal more than 20 deg.+- but I have also been sailing since I was 10. (28 yrs) I would take any one that can swim on my boat with a life preserver and instructions on how to get picked up out of the water if they fall off.

I also sail with my two kids (one 9 and the other 11). Safety is a big factor and you also don't want to scare them. I put my younger child on the downwind hull near the side stay. One thing I always tell her is if we capsize, get back to the boat and hold on to a hull. Well, we did capsize recently, she rolled off the hull and ended up behind the boat about 5 feet back. She thought it was fun and swam back to the boat and held on to the hull. So, talk to your daughter about what to do in the event of a capsize. I also tell my daughter to hold on to the side stay for security reasons (my goofy daughter literally rolled off of the boat last year since she was not paying attention and not holding on). Maybe someone else has a better idea but this is what I have come up with.



Next thing, before you take her out, practice stopping the boat as described by Rick White. If she lets go and falls off, you either have to get back to her quick or stop the boat on a dime. I found out the value of this last year when my daughter rolled off the boat. Next, practice righting the boat---you don't want to practive right the boat for the first time with a 5-year-old wondering why it is taking Daddy so long to get the boat upright. Finally, depower the boat the first time and/or pick light wind conditions. Let you traveler out a little so she can get the feel of sailing without your hull popping out of the water. Save that for the second trip out.



As with the other responder, get her a butt bucket. Once she gets out on the wire, you will never get her back in. My daughter bounces up and down the hull like some sort of amusement ride (drives me crazy but she is now loves going sailing). I hope to race with my kids someday but for now, let them have fun and learn to appreciate and respect sailing.



Hope the helps.



bob klein

I think the number one most important safety feature when you are taking children out on a cat is to have some sort of flotation at the top of the mast so the boat cannot possibly turtle. Hobie Cat Company sells a bob that will fit on most masts.

I take my 3 oldest kids all the time. The 11-, 8-, and 5-year olds all love sailing and are all excellent swimmers. Like myself, they all wear properly fitting PFDs; and with the 5-year old, I attach a safety line in case he goes overboard. Initially I put him in the center of the tramp and had him hold on to the hiking straps. Lately he's been wanting to sit on the windward hull and hike out. I pretty much let him do what he feels comfortable with as long as I've got a safety line on him. My boat is boomless, so I don't worry about that.



Start 'em young. Let them hold the tiller, sheet the sails, etc. Heck, I learned to sail on an El Toro when I was 6 or 7...

Marc,



I'm afraid I have never been in a trapeze, but I do have two and all the rigging. If there's a capsize, and my daughter is the only person attached to the trap, what would happen? Should I be worried about her being tied to the mast?



I'm particularly worried about what would happen if we turtled, whether she could be trapped under the water (no pun intended).



Is this a realistic fear?



Jonathan

Thanks, Bob, this sounds like excellent advice. I think my wife and I will definitely want to practice the drills you suggest before going out with our daughter.



We have already been talking with our daughter about what to do in case of a capsize. She isn't scared. We are ;->



Jonathan

Mary,



Excuse the naive question, but you seem to be implying that turtling is much more dangerous than capsizing. Why is that?



According to [1], Hobie's mast floats include a "Baby Bob", a "Mama Bob", and a "Hobie Bob", which displace 32 pounds, 59 pounds, and 60 pounds of water respectively (for $88.50, $110.00, and $171.50). Is the "Mama Bob" what we want? It seems to displace almost as much water as the "Hobie Bob", fits the H16 (but we have a Prindle 16), and is a LOT cheaper than the "Hobie Bob". Or is the "Baby Bob" sufficient?



Now that my wife has seen your email, I don't think I have a choice in the matter, it looks like we're destined to get one of these floats ;->



Jonathan



[1] http://www.murrays.com/archive/46-47.pdf

How do you attach the safety line to the boat and to the kid? I want to avoid any arrangement that might trap the kid if something did go wrong...



Jonathan

I have two daughters 4 and 9.They both got started from the time they were in the womb.When they are young or new to the sport the main thing is to be calm and make it fun! It was my wifes job to look after the kids. It was my job not to capsize.I don't agree with having the kids sit on the leeward side.If the windward shroud were to break,the mast would fall in that direction.Not a good thing.Now I realize a child will roam around on the boat, I do the same thing. Sometimes a wire will break even if it looks good.So do the smart thing...Put your wife over there!!!!!



I'm kidding I'm kidding

Have fun,be safe

Mike

Can't stress it enough. Thro a spare life preserver overboard while going downwind. Then fetch it. Dont "think" you can do it. Do it . Many long time sailors cant. You must have someone with you to scoop her up. Set up so you can head up and stop at the "child". Throw a cap overboard and fetch it before it sinks... (lasts a few minutes, but how many have lost a cap?)

I used to do part-time work as a catsailing instructor and what I did on fun rides with small children (with one parent present) was to pin the kid between myself (skipper) and the crew (parent).



During manouvres I told the parent to go across first and the kid second and myself last. This comes very close to roll tacking and when the kid slips there is always an adult on either side to get hold off the kid.



I also used to let the kid trapeze out first as I founf that it was the parents who had more trouble learning to trapeze then the kids and a big adult flying around is sure to through a kid off balance too.



In questionable cases I trapped out behind the kid or parent and catch them with my body when they lost their footing. Especially children feel secure with that.



I also explained to the kids on beach what they should do when for some reason they fell off anyway. Maybe even let them swim a short round in the surf to get to know the wetsuit and bouyancy aid. Often withing seconds they got over the initial fright and started laughing. Ofcourse I made sure that the parent was nearby and secretly let them get used to the gear too. With colder water this also prevents them from getting the cold shower right after the fall off and make them even more nervous.



I also found that both adults and kid became remarkable controlled when they feel that the skipper knows what he is doing and stays calm and in control. One time I was unlucky and flipped the boat right in the middle of a big surf; with considerable breankers. I took the time explaining in 4 or 5 sentences what we were going to do and went on and righted the boat with the parent. No hast and also no wasting of time. After wards they thought it was great although I knew that we were in a really bad spot. Having said this I was really pleased with the way they held their composure in that situation and they were really helpfull in getting out of that tight spot.



Also I imagine that practicing man-overboard meanouvres as a parent unsing an empty life jacket and showing them that you are good at that makes them feel comfortable.



I short, when they feel that everything is under control even when unintentional things happen than they will be fine, depending on their character ofcourse, some kids don't like sailing.



Good luck



Wouter

If a boat just capsizes and stays on its side, the riders generally fall off or slide off and are just in the water on one side of the boat or the other. But if the boat goes upside down, it is too easy for someone to be trapped underneath the trampoline. It has happened several times in the past with adults, sometimes with fatal results. And this would be even more of a danger for young children.

As far as the different types of Hobie "bobs," I did not even know they had different sizes and models. I'm sure the experts at Hobie Cat Company or maybe at Murrays Marine would be the ones to give you advice as to which would be the best for your boat. I would say that the one recommended for the Hobie 16 would be the logical one to use for the Prindle 16. If you do not want a bob, although I don't know why, they also have flotation strips of some kind that you can put on the upper part of your mast to keep it floating.

Here is the text of a letter sent to me that I printed in the current issue of "Catamaran Sailor" magazine:

I noted in the latest NAHCA News the account of the near drowning during the Hobie 16 Worlds. It seems to me that a small masthead float would eliminate the possibility of trapping someone under the tramp on a capsize.

For several years I have had the hobie Wave float on my Hobie 16. It will not allow the boat to turtle so I can not trap a crew person under the tramp.

I sail primarily with family,but also with friends and acquaintances of varying degrees of skill as sailors. I have my big waves and heavy air crew and frankly I can not detect any difference in the boat’s performance that I can attribute to the float.

For me the risk of drowning is not acceptable without the float. We have sailed hobies for over 20 years and look forward to many more.

If you decide to go with one of the hobie bobs, make sure you secure it to the mast in some fashion that is more sturdy than that which hobie provides. On my big bob, it ripped the eyestraps right out of the comptip on my 17 the very first time I capsized the boat, and that it was a controlled capsize in 3 feet of water (to test the floatbob).

Many options on how to attach a safety line to the crew and boat--next time you're at a marine store, check out all the options used in monohulls. For catsailing, I only use one for my 5 year old. And keep the line long. It's to make retrieval easier; in the event of a capsize, there should be enough line for the child to float free. Don't take the kid out if you think you're going to capsize.



I agree with practicing man overboard drills. Last weekend I lost something small off my cat--cork broke off the end of my tiller coming in off the trap. I decided to try and get it. Retreiving a 2 inch cork while sailing in 1-2 feet of chop and moderate wind proved to be a great excercise in boat handling!

You should seal your mast from leaks. use some silicone (the tub and bath kind) to prevent turtling. you are safe with the trap line as the harness is designed to come unhooked if the boat goes over. there are always risks of something happining however if your daughter is between your legs then whatever happens to the adult will happen to the child. I feel safe with my kids on the line but I also have a chicken line set up to prevent them from experiencing the effects of a pitchpole. and I sail in fairly consistant ocean winds so I have a lot of control of the boat.

Good idea to practice a pickup or two but throw over the wife. I like to tell my prospective rescuees that I will run over them and that they should grab the dolphin striker. If you head up wind as you get to them then keep the windward hull up wind of them it is easy to head straight up wind as they grag the DS and then just walk forward to the crossbar and help them up without the worries of the boat taking off again.

Mary,



I'm glad I asked. Thanks for the clear and helpful description of the problem. I'm buying the bob....



Jonathan

Jonathan,

According to the Hobie catalogue, the Baby Bob is recommended for the Hobie Wave, the Hobie 14 and the Hobie 16. So that is likely the one you want.

Make sure you get the proper mounting brackets with the Bob. I have seen them snap off on a capsize when they hit the water.



Also, Make sure its completely sealed... a leaky Bob will be a fate worse then death.



Never to early to start the kids sailing. I saw two friends who sailed 49ners and big boats purchase a brand new Opti for their thirteen month old baby... Mom had the kid in the boat in one knott of breeze last Sunday evening... Lots of photo's were taken!!!



Lots of debate whether this was a good idea or a bad idea



Have fun

Mark