Hi all,
just wondering what the average time is, going from road ready to sailing away and vice-versa, in a 'beach' cat, say between 15-18Ft?

I know lots of you must race and do just this at the start / end of regattas and such. So how long would this take.

I'm looking for an easily trailerable boat, and (inevitably?) some website suggested a Hobie. The site only said it was easy, not exactly how long.

What I need is a boat I can store in the yard (or a near-by farmer's yard), pick her up after dinner, go for a sail, and be back in time to not be missed <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

regards,
Dennis

An H16 should take no more than a 1/2 hour. Practice and familarity with the boat will shorten it even more. Anything beyond 45 minutes means your drinking too much beer.

Hey Dennis, From around 15 minutes to 45 minutes and up depending on the boat. Sounds like you don't have a boat. If you don't, help us get a clearer picture of what you need in a cat and maybe we can guide you.

Do you have any aspirations to race in the future or just pleasure sail?

Sounds like you'll be single handing, do you want the versitility of sailing with crew also? Sailing with kids?

What is your sailing background?

Tell us a little about where you'll be sailing mostly.


Looking forward to helping you out!

The answers above are just what I needed to hear. Jeremy is right though, I will be single-handing a lot (or taking small children along), which is even 'worse' :-)
I don't intend to race seriously because I could never be at enough regattas to pick up significant points. That means I will be pleasure sailing, the pleasure primarily coming from running rings around other boats, just for the heck of it.
I'm looking at a trailerable cat for the fun and versatility. I don't know how compatible a cat is to what my wife enjoys though... It may still be a hard sell.
We both have a background sailing 6 Meter (21Ft?) keel boats, slow, more or less stable and heavy 500Kgs (+/-1000lbs?). She's a good sailer although she doesn't know it herself... I'm a pretty decent sailor, and have skippered for summer camps and such.
We have 2 small children and we discovered that that means one of two options: Get a huge yacht (Huge yachts bore my socks off in everything below 7Bft) Or a tiny fun boat. So my idea is: What could be more fun than a small cat? Taking the kids out would be below 5 Bft (the first years), and I think I can handle something like a Hobie 16 single handed under those conditions. Above 4 Bft I could go out with a friend, or just reef the main and get a smaller jib.
Am I crazy?

You're definitely NOT crazy. I have many customers take small children out all the time! And, single handing the 16 in light wind is no problem. It can be a chore to rig solo, but there are ways around it. I think I have a better option for you though...

I know what boat I'm thinking of that would be perfect for you and your small children. But, instead of being a forum hog, I want to see what other people say. I'll get back to you after a few others give input.

Come on guys, this is the 90% of cat sailors out there. What do you think? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You'd do good with either a H16 or a H Getaway (you know where to send the $20 Jeremy). The Getaway is slower but is more family friendly and has lots of space. The H16 is a good solid boat that is fairly fast, has high parts availibility and, if you do decide to race, there's usually a H16 class at most regattas.

Jeremy, you're thinking of the wave or getaway, I'm fairly certain.
Dennis - does this look like your family?
http://www.sail-s.com/Education_Clubs/fast&fun4_2002.jpg

or does this remind you more of your family?
http://www.mariner-sails.com/cust_files/images/getaway2.jpg

lol

Getaway or Hobie 18 with wings. The 18 will be harder to set-up by yourself but can be single handed in up to a moderate wind. No experience with a Getaway.

I think conditions on the water can change very quickly.

If you are going unsupervised then you should get something that you can right under all circumstances. The H16, Gateway and TheMightyHobie18 are all nice boats just not recommended for single hand sailing. Note: Sven http://www.catsailor.com/bb_files/104587-%23SvenSchang.txt was on a H16. I personally would not believe in wishful thinking when my life (or in your case small children) could depend on it. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Dennis, you didn't say how young your children are. And you didn't tell us where you sail -- not just the region or state, but do you sail on a small inland lake or one of the Great Lakes or the ocean or what? And what is the average or normal wind in your area during your sailing season?
Does "Me" stand for Maine?

All these things make a BIG difference.

All the other suggestions plus any inexpensive Prindle 16 , nacra 5.0 or nacra 500 that you can find.

Interestingly enough almost any catamaran design will carry a family of four, there is alot of volume in both cat hulls. So that is never an issue except when you by a very small cat like the Hobie 14 or something.

Personally I would not go over 150 kg = 330 lbs as ready to sail weight. With each kg it gets harder to get the boat off the trailer and onto its beach wheel and to the waterline. For a long time I had a Prindle 16 myself (135 kg = 298 lbs) and it was one of the very best simple catamarans around for the use that you are looking for. It will carry 3 to 4 adults (been there plenty of times) so a family will not be a problem. It is one of the lightest "old designs" around and often get can be had dirt cheap. Rigging it is a breeze. And at 84 kg = 185 lbs I could right it alone with only a righting rope. It is very comparable to the H16 in many respects. But I has noticeable more difficulty righting the Hobie 16 singlehandedly. Either way having a righting bag on board is compulsory in my opinion.

I hear the nacra 5.0 and 500 are even somewhat better boats for this use then the Prindle 16 and Hobie 16.

Another suggestion would be the Dart 18 but these are very rare in USA.

Good luck.

Wouter

For sailing with kids or such go with the Hobie wave, A bigger alternative would be a Dart 18 if you can find one localy. both of these boats would not be overpowered for single handed conditions but will take multiple people. Most importantly, both those boats can be righted solo if you flip with your kids on. Personaly, I think the getaway weighs way to much to be considered as a single hander. Anyway, you will have alot of fun on a cat.

Good Luck,
Eric

Based on all the info I got from the original thread:
[EDIT]
OOps, the forum won't let me post this as a new topic. Okay, so down with Netiquette then![/edit]

I concluded:
Jeez, the options are dazzling...

Some info up front:
I sail in the south of the Netherlands, Grevelingen.
(maps.google.com --> "Grevelingen, NL") The other major waters you see around there are my "surf", so to speak. They are not really sheltered because the country is as flat as a pancake, but it depends on the wind direction. A swell can easily build from 5Bft onwards, with wave lengths of around 10-12 Meters and top-trough heights of about 1-1.5meters (my estimates). There are no breaking waves except maybe the odd one from interference.

The wind is all over the place. luckily I get to pick when I go out or stay home. I generally enjoy sailing between 3Bft and 5Bft. Above that is what I get into whenever I'm not back in time to beat the summer thunderstorms home. I call it "Survival mode".

I'll need to single hand often, but family sailing should be easy in light winds. While I don't intend to race, I do consider an active class organization a definite advantage. Mainly because of parts (knowledge) and used sails availability.

The kids are small still, like 2 and almost 1. That means I won't be taking them out this season, but the oldest should be ok next year whenever the water is flat (and there are no thunderstorms brewing).

I'm still very much planning what to do, and trying to keep an open mind to any possibilities.

I agree about being able to right the boat single handedly, that is a definite MUST. I do NOT want to be the one giving cats a bad name around here. And I don't want to be a statistic like that poor never to be old Sven Chang.

I'm also a do-it yourself type of guy. I do not like the idea of buying anything that is made from polypropylene or polyethylene. I can handle glass and epoxy, but There is no way I know of, of fixing sloppy PP/PE (I still have nightmares from the days of my old surfboard).

The Nacra 5.0 (+500?) looks like a nice 'all-round' boat I could handle. With those huge floats it should be able to handle me and my wife. The Dart 18 looks nice too, but is also a lot bigger.

Any other ideas?
Dennis

I used to get a Prindle 15 from trailer to sailing in 15 minutes flat, a Prindle 18 in 20. We used fastpins and snap shackles on anything that had to be connected or disconnected.

My Prindle 18-2 with spinnaker took a full hour each way.

Simple is good. An old Prindle 16 is a great boat, at 300 lbs, and a good all around rig for windy conditions. They can be found at bargain prices, but have them checked out carefully before you buy.

Four years ago, Bonnie pointed out a Hobie 16 sitting neglected in a yard across the street from our Bank. About 6 months ago I found out that it was owned by a good friend of mine's "hording" father (as was the house). My friend decided he wants me to help him restore it (the sails are in great shape) and so we moved it to my back yard last night (Bonnie was elated....NOT!).

Anyway...I'm giving it a once-over and I said to myself, "self, you could set this whole thing up and be sailing in 20 minutes." Kinda makes me want to go try it out (after a lot of hull cleaning, new trampoline, new lines, and a little glass work on the starboard stern).

The 5.0 is a nice two man boat. Good in rough weather and surf weighs about 10-20 kg. less then an H16 but that mast is long and heavy. I weigh 96kg. and needed about 32 liters of water (32kg.) to right my 5.0 off the lawn in front of my house. I got blown into the rocks off shore once because I couldn't get it righted in a timely manner. I’d recommend going to a lighter platform such as Mosquito, Taipan, paper tiger, F14, F16 etc.. The Wave (12ft) is a good resort boat but it’s so slow compared to the other cats, that for me, it’s not as interesting unless you have other waves to race against. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

You'll never go back. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

That's what I'm afraid of! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hey Dennis,

If you walked into my shop, our dialog would go something liked this:

(Me)
"Good afternoon Dennis, Welcome to Surf City".
(You)
“I'm looking for an easily trailerable boat, and (inevitably?) some website suggested a Hobie…I don't intend to race seriously because I could never be at enough regattas to pick up significant points. That means I will be pleasure sailing, the pleasure primarily coming from running rings around other boats, just for the heck of it.”
(Me)
“Pretty much any cat can rig fairly quickly with practice. Some rig more quickly than others though, and it doesn't sound like a spinnaker is your thing, so we'll rule out spin boats.”
(You)
“I will be single-handing a lot (or taking small children along), which is even 'worse' :-)”
(Me)
It’s great that you want to get your kids into sailing so early! There are ways that we can make a boat like a Hobie 16 able to be put together and sailed by one person, but that’s not what that boat was built for. If the wind came up and you dumped, it would be very difficult to right while dealing with your children. How about a cat that is a little less powered up. And when the wind does pipe up how about a reef to keep things mellow for the kids?”
(You)
"I don't know how compatible a cat is to what my wife enjoys though... It may still be a hard sell"
(Me)
“Sounds like something with backrests would work out nicely. And, it will give the kids an extra something to hold onto.”
(You)
“I agree about being able to right the boat single handedly, that is a definite MUST. I do NOT want to be the one giving cats a bad name around here.”
(Me)
“Good call! You can provision a cat with a righting bag or pole, but with kids on board you want to get it upright as quickly as possible. Or even better, lessen the chances of a capsize by choosing a hull design with a lot of buoyancy forward, and a de-powered sail plan. But, you also want the option of adding sail to make it more exciting.”
(You)
“I'm also a do-it yourself type of guy. I do not like the idea of buying anything that is made from polypropylene or polyethylene. I can handle glass and epoxy, but There is no way I know of, of fixing sloppy PP/PE (I still have nightmares from the days of my old surfboard).”
(Me)
Plastic’s come a long way. I have never had to do warranty work on any Hobie rotomolded sailboat hull due to defect in manufacturing…I’ve never even seen one get a hole, and I’ve been selling their products since 1999. Hobie rotomolded boats are very tough.”

Sounds like the Flyer 2 A-class is the perfect….
Just Kidding!

Based on the above info taken from your posts. I would say that a Hobie Wave would be the ticket. Add the jib kit so that the kids could get used to crewing and maybe backrests for the wife.

This whole dialog is a total farce though. If you brought the family into the shop my dialog would’ve been with your wife. Because everyone knows when kids are involved, the wife picks the boat.
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ok Mr Salesman... Do I get a discount if I buy 10? This picture makes me want to set up a sailing school. Let me see, is that a Club Med sticker on there...

To tell you the truth, I think my wife might actually like that little boat. It looks sort of "friendly" and enticing in a playful sort of way. I need the jib though, I'm lost without my tell-tales. Besides, they give the wife another reason to scold me: "Hey Dennis, watch that lee tell-tale you dope!"

If I'd walked into your store you would have noticed my worn blue jeans and faded T-shirt first though...

What it all boils down to is a limited budget, like max 2000 Euros (and even this is a stretch), which would clearly limit me to second hand boats.

Sorry about that, I should have said that sooner.
Dennis