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Re: Pick your Alter Cup horse! [Re: PTP] #104320
04/23/07 01:06 PM
04/23/07 01:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
mikekrantz Offline
old hand
mikekrantz  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
based on all the carnage in years past, we having to sail with bow bumpers...

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Pick your Alter Cup horse! [Re: PTP] #104321
04/23/07 01:13 PM
04/23/07 01:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
I think the boards are longer and narrower than on my boat. More like the A cat. The rudders may be slightly different. The spinnaker is a two-line setup instead of one continuous halyard. I think.

Re: Pick your Alter Cup horse! [Re: mikekrantz] #104322
04/23/07 01:33 PM
04/23/07 01:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 612
Cape Town, South Africa
Steve_Kwiksilver Offline
addict
Steve_Kwiksilver  Offline
addict

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 612
Cape Town, South Africa
Quote
Masts are up, and the boats are being tuned by the RC officials. All the boats are being set up with the same rake, diamond tension, spreader rake, etc. the competitors are not allowed to tune the boat or change the setup. Pulling strings is all that is allowed.

What ? To my way of thinking that does NOT provide a level playing field - crews of different weights MUST be able to tune the mast rake, spreader rake and diamond wire tension to suit their weight, and should also be able to adjust these parameters for different wind conditions. The concept of all boats being "equal" should never be taken to the point where they are all set up equally, since not all crews are of equal weight and even sailing style will dictate some settings that are preferable to some crews and not others.
It sounds like the way things are being done will result in the boats "sweet spot" will favour one or two crews who happen to fit into the weight category which the settings suit the most, unless the settings favour most mixed crews and then disadvantage the heavier male-male crews. Apologies if I offend here, but this sounds like a Hobie philosophy, which doesn`t work on Hobies either.
I realise the format of the regatta requires boat swopping, but crews should be given half an hour between races to tune the boat to their settings - part of the skill of sailing is the ability to get this aspect right, and taking it away lessens the skill required to win, in my opinion.

Re: Pick your Alter Cup horse! [Re: Steve_Kwiksilver] #104323
04/23/07 01:46 PM
04/23/07 01:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
Quote
Quote
Masts are up, and the boats are being tuned by the RC officials. All the boats are being set up with the same rake, diamond tension, spreader rake, etc. the competitors are not allowed to tune the boat or change the setup. Pulling strings is all that is allowed.

What ? To my way of thinking that does NOT provide a level playing field - crews of different weights MUST be able to tune the mast rake, spreader rake and diamond wire tension to suit their weight, and should also be able to adjust these parameters for different wind conditions. The concept of all boats being "equal" should never be taken to the point where they are all set up equally, since not all crews are of equal weight and even sailing style will dictate some settings that are preferable to some crews and not others.
It sounds like the way things are being done will result in the boats "sweet spot" will favour one or two crews who happen to fit into the weight category which the settings suit the most, unless the settings favour most mixed crews and then disadvantage the heavier male-male crews. Apologies if I offend here, but this sounds like a Hobie philosophy, which doesn`t work on Hobies either.
I realise the format of the regatta requires boat swopping, but crews should be given half an hour between races to tune the boat to their settings - part of the skill of sailing is the ability to get this aspect right, and taking it away lessens the skill required to win, in my opinion.

You would need more than 30 minutes between races to change anything meaningful I would think. Think about the time it takes to get back to beach (including last boat) then change everything, then back out to the start. Wouldn't work. I am not sure how it works this year but corrector weights were used last year. Does that even things up enough for you? I am not sure of the details, but I am sure Jake will let us know.
What is the range of weights anyway? If there were corrector weights and a 400lb crew showed up then should everyone be made to carry enough weight to account for that?

Re: Pick your Alter Cup horse! [Re: PTP] #104324
04/23/07 02:31 PM
04/23/07 02:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
I believe the round robin is modeled after the kind of sailing that occurs at US Colleges and Universities. Boat changes must happen quickly... so .. no modifications other then downhaul etc, etc.

I think most of the teams choose to take the time and race when they believe they will suit the boat and have a fair chance. It does sort of autoregulate the competitior makeup. Wouter is correct.. This years diverse turnout is similar to the year they used the Hobie 16. It should be a great event!

PS... the Lovel and Lovel team has a LOT of talent on that boat. Johnny should be able to hold up his half of the boat! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

GO George and Susan!!


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Pick your Alter Cup horse! [Re: Mark Schneider] #104325
04/23/07 02:52 PM
04/23/07 02:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Well I hope this excellent wind holds up for the next several days, but it usually doesn't. It's been blowing a very nice 15 the past two days, anyone seen the forecast for the rest of the week?


Blade F16
#777
Re: Pick your Alter Cup horse! [Re: Steve_Kwiksilver] #104326
04/23/07 11:09 PM
04/23/07 11:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Quote
Quote
Masts are up, and the boats are being tuned by the RC officials. All the boats are being set up with the same rake, diamond tension, spreader rake, etc. the competitors are not allowed to tune the boat or change the setup. Pulling strings is all that is allowed.

What ? To my way of thinking that does NOT provide a level playing field - crews of different weights MUST be able to tune the mast rake, spreader rake and diamond wire tension to suit their weight, and should also be able to adjust these parameters for different wind conditions. The concept of all boats being "equal" should never be taken to the point where they are all set up equally, since not all crews are of equal weight and even sailing style will dictate some settings that are preferable to some crews and not others.
It sounds like the way things are being done will result in the boats "sweet spot" will favour one or two crews who happen to fit into the weight category which the settings suit the most, unless the settings favour most mixed crews and then disadvantage the heavier male-male crews. Apologies if I offend here, but this sounds like a Hobie philosophy, which doesn`t work on Hobies either.
I realise the format of the regatta requires boat swopping, but crews should be given half an hour between races to tune the boat to their settings - part of the skill of sailing is the ability to get this aspect right, and taking it away lessens the skill required to win, in my opinion.


OK...Ok...then YOU manage the race and figure out how to get 24 races in four days. Look, we're doing our best (and pretty good too) to hit the intermediate setting range on the boats. Even if the weight difference are advantageous to one team or the other, the conditions are certain to change over the week of this regatta. Regardless, if you start letting everyone set their boat up the way they wish, you'll not only be on the beach all day, but you'll undoubtedly end up with teams with the most experience on the boats having a huge advantage. We will get boats turned around in much less than 30 minutes...and trust me, the best team will win. Just watch.

PS, this is not the "old school" round robin rotation format but we constantly modify the rotation based on performance. All sailors that have competed in this format agree that it is a significant improvement over past systems.


Jake Kohl
Re: Pick your Alter Cup horse! [Re: Jake] #104327
04/24/07 06:46 AM
04/24/07 06:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Someone asked for more names on the photos ... I didn't get pictures of everyone that helped but I put the names on the pictures that we have at

Team Seacats Photo Gallery


Jake Kohl
Re: Pick your Alter Cup horse! [Re: Jake] #104328
04/24/07 06:51 AM
04/24/07 06:51 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
Any chance of some rigging shots? Particularly the self tacker.

I know your busy. Thanks for all your efforts.

Re: Pick your Alter Cup horse! [Re: fin.] #104329
04/24/07 07:40 AM
04/24/07 07:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 402
Punta Gorda, FL
J
jkkartz1 Offline
addict
jkkartz1  Offline
addict
J

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 402
Punta Gorda, FL
I cruised over from Punta Gorda to help set up the boats. My Hobie 16 is like a 1969 Corvette compared to the Blade F16 which is a 2007 Corvette Z06.

I picked up the Sunday Melborne Today newspaper. The back page of the sports section had a 3/4 page article with a great picture of Matt & Gina double trapped. I hope that you get more coverage for the races.

Best of luck to all!

Jack

Re: Pick your Alter Cup horse! [Re: Jake] #104330
04/24/07 07:45 AM
04/24/07 07:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,449
P
phill Offline
veteran
phill  Offline
veteran
P

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,449
Jake,
Thankyou for taking the time to do that.
Good to put names to faces and vise versa.

Regards,
Phill


I know that the voices in my head aint real,
but they have some pretty good ideas.
There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!

Re: Pick your Alter Cup horse! [Re: jkkartz1] #104331
04/24/07 03:36 PM
04/24/07 03:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 35
Warsaw, IN
F18MattJ Offline
newbie
F18MattJ  Offline
newbie

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 35
Warsaw, IN
How did the training day go at the Alter Cup.
My pick is Olli & Kelly

cheers
MJ

Re: Pick your Alter Cup horse! [Re: F18MattJ] #104332
04/24/07 03:38 PM
04/24/07 03:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
Any idea how to get a ride on the spectator boat on Saturday?

Re: Pick your Alter Cup horse! [Re: fin.] #104333
04/24/07 04:45 PM
04/24/07 04:45 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Guys:

I am going with John and Tiffany Tomko. Got to go with our local hotshots. They are already Nationals winner and did good at the Worlds.

Doug

And they are off ! [Re: ] #104334
04/24/07 05:12 PM
04/24/07 05:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
And they are off !

(For a training race)

[Linked Image]

Picture taken by Darline Hobock.

For the rest go to :

http://www.ussailing.org/championships/p...ShowSub=Day%201

For some reason the thumbnails fail to load but when you click on the frames anyway then the full pictures will appear in their own window.


[Linked Image]

Picture taken by Darline Hobock.


Todays short report on the training.

Source : http://www.ussailing.org/championships/adult/usmhc/alter07/Daily%20Update/Daily%20Report.asp


Tuesday, April 24d
"Sure hope we are ready for tomorrow..." These words are echoed by all of the 20 teams here for the 2007 Multihull Championship. Ten Blade F16s were set up and ready for the teams when they arrived at Ballard Park this morning. Registration went smoothly. Jake Kohl, Alter Cup chairman, and John Fox, regatta chairman, have assembled an excellent team of race committee workers, ably headed by Tom Farquhar, and chief judge, Dave Shaffer. Sunny skies and a 10-12kt breeze gave the teams an opportunity to get familiar with the boats and work out any bugs during practice races today. The entire group is hanging loose waiting for a big cookout at Ballard Park this evening.


Wouter

Attached Files
Last edited by Wouter; 04/24/07 05:26 PM.
Re: And they are off ! [Re: Wouter] #104335
04/24/07 05:17 PM
04/24/07 05:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 756
Newport, RI
wildtsail Offline
old hand
wildtsail  Offline
old hand

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 756
Newport, RI
Can we put money down on this?
If so all mine is going down on the Lovells.
I'm routing for many others, that's just who I think will win.

Re: And they are off ! [Re: wildtsail] #104336
04/24/07 06:32 PM
04/24/07 06:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
I guess it may be against the "rules" but I am dying to know what they think of the blade

Re: And they are off ! [Re: PTP] #104337
04/24/07 09:30 PM
04/24/07 09:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Rigging pictures? I'll work on that tomorrow...there's some pretty neat stuff on these boats....more info at www.teamseacats.com. We'll be switching over soon to the US Sailing siteHERE


Jake Kohl
Re: And they are off ! [Re: Jake] #104338
04/25/07 02:50 AM
04/25/07 02:50 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



You guy's are doing this to tease me right <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

I am sitting here stuck in Victoria Australia. Waiting for a Blade and you guy's are dangling all these new boats in front of me, not fair <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

Hey Phill, you must be feeling very proud <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, like a parent that has helped give birth to a whole new fleet. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Bet you never thought those doodles on paper would come to this.

Congrats to Matt also, a amazing commitment, which should ensure the success of F16 in the US, once all those new crews have sailed this amazing class, they won't be able to help but spread the good word. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Re: And they are off ! [Re: ] #104339
04/25/07 11:21 AM
04/25/07 11:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
Does anyone have Tback's cell #? Or Timbo's? I think they are on the water at Alter Cup. Maybe they would call in an "eyewitness" report.

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