| Re: Tacking the A in big wind?
[Re: davefarmer]
#105473 05/01/07 12:47 AM 05/01/07 12:47 AM |
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 902 Norman,OK gree2056
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Posts: 902 Norman,OK | I know that feeling but it takes about 20-25 before my boat starts to lose momentum during tacks.
Once you go cat you never go back!
Nacra 5.2 (Elsies)#1499, running an inter17 spin!
| | | Re: Tacking the A in big wind?
[Re: davefarmer]
#105474 05/01/07 04:48 AM 05/01/07 04:48 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | I'm not sure how the A-cat handle it but I found when singlehanding my F16 (also low on momentum) that when I move over too soon as the skipper that I kill boat speed in a tack. Pretty much you want to do sort of a roll tack in these big winds. And yes that can get a bit hairy.
Look at it from this perspective. The outward hull mast arc through the tack at speed while the inward hull slows down. If you move to soon over as the crew then you body mass will have to be accellerated from slow to fast in order to complete the corner. The energy required to do this has to come out of the momentum of the boat as the sails are not providing anyd drive at that point. Taking this energy will slow down the craft through the turn increasing the time needed to make the turn in which the rig ca not provide sail drive but the overall drag can sap more speed. In affect you only get deeper and deeper stuck at low speeds.
Now if you roll tack then the lee hull with your body mass on it will slow down the most while the light outer hull will easily swing about. When passed through the wind the sails will draw a little bit again and then you can move over and complete the turn before capsizing.
I hope this makes sense.
Wouter
Last edited by Wouter; 05/01/07 06:46 AM.
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Tacking the A in big wind?
[Re: davefarmer]
#105475 05/01/07 06:26 AM 05/01/07 06:26 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,449 phill
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Posts: 1,449 | Dave, I don't claim to be an expert but if you don't mind I will throw in my 2 cents and give my personal perspective based on sailing UNI on a number of others cats:- I offer you two different techniques, however both involve roll tacks and both work well dependant upon execution..
First with the main cleated. As you go into the tack pull in an armfull of sheet and cleat. When you come in off the wire as soon as your knees hit the deck uncleat the main because you should already be thru the tack. I think this is the quickest but also the most risky because if your timing is out you are swimming.
Second is similar but the sheet goes into the hand with the tiller. As you come in you move towards the back of the boat and rotated your tiller arm towards the back of the boat to minimise tha amount of sheet that is eased as you go into the tack. In both cases the common theme is keeping the main sheeted tight as long as possible and letting it out as soon as you are thru the eye of the wind.
Anyone easing the main before the tack is looking for a slow tack. Both work best when going over the crest of a wave.
Give it ago in lighter air to perfect either technique. Timing is everything.
Good luck.
Regards, Phill
I know that the voices in my head aint real, but they have some pretty good ideas. There is no such thing as a quick fix and I've never had free lunch!
| | | Re: Tacking the A in big wind?
[Re: davefarmer]
#105477 05/01/07 08:49 AM 05/01/07 08:49 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 778 Houston carlbohannon
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Posts: 778 Houston | It's a matter of timing. You just need to practice.
My techniques change depending on whether I scared myself or I annoyed myself with slow tacks.
1)Get the boat in position. You need to be pointing high but still have good speed. Watch for waves.
2) Move aft until up can in come from the wire and just miss the traveler.
3) These thing happen in sequence but almost at the same time. The sequence depends on how much I have scared myself or how tired I am. (conservative) Easy the main until you stop flying a hull, start to come in from the wire and push the tiller to tack the boat, hit the tramp and release the trap, easy the main, flip the tiller, start pulling the main in as you go across, attach the trap and go out pulling the main in as you go. (not scared) push the tiller, ease the main, and start in at about the same time. The rest is about the same.
Now that you are confused, the key is to stay powered up as long as possible and use the natural motion of the boat to complete a tack.
You are pointing hard with good speed. You pinch the boat up and ease the main so it will keep going instead of windmilling. You come in off the wire to keep the boat from falling on top of you and scramble across taking care of necessary things as you go
Now go practice in lighter air.
(I don't like calling this a roll tack. Roll tacking a Laser, you can exit a tack faster than you go into it. You are using your weight and your strenght to propel the boat using the center board as a paddle. I have never seen anyone do that on a multihull) | | | Re: Tacking the A in big wind?
[Re: carlbohannon]
#105478 05/02/07 09:57 AM 05/02/07 09:57 AM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA Isotope235
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Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA | I don't like calling this a roll tack... I have never seen anyone do that on a multihull) Rick claims you can roll tack a cat, and I don't dispute that. I sometimes intentionally fly a hull a little high when initiating a tack. That increases weather helm and helps bring the bows up to head-to-wind quicker. In kinetics terms, I am rolling the boat (exaggerating heel by moving my body) to facilitate a tack. Does that count? I suppose, if conditions were right, I could fly a hull coming out of the tack and then hike out to pull the boat back down. That would accelerate the boat out of the tack (the second half of a roll-tack). Regards, Eric | | | Re: Tacking the A in big wind?
[Re: Acat230]
#105480 05/02/07 01:39 PM 05/02/07 01:39 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | When reading this post my eye noticed this and my mind wondered : The boat tacks extremely well
...
The bottom line is it takes a lot of practice.
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Tacking the A in big wind?
[Re: Wouter]
#105481 05/02/07 04:09 PM 05/02/07 04:09 PM |
Joined: Oct 2001 Posts: 395 LA Acat230
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Posts: 395 LA | When reading this post my eye noticed this and my mind wondered : The boat tacks extremely well
...
The bottom line is it takes a lot of practice.
Wouter Every A-Cat I have owned has tacked faster than the other boats I have sailed (P-19, Tornado, F-18HT). It takes practice to get across the boat quick enough to keep from flipping over (especially on my A2). It also takes practice (a lot) to perfect the basic choreography of a great wire-to-wire tack (and that applies to any trapeze boat). That is one nice thing about the A-boat, you can really take advantage of smaller shifts upwind because it does tack so easily. It's amazing in a race how much you can lose with a bad tack. Practice is key if you want to win a championship. | | | Re: Tacking the A in big wind?
[Re: Acat230]
#105482 05/02/07 04:35 PM 05/02/07 04:35 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe |
I understand Bob,
The thing that just caught my eye was the transition from one extreme to another in about 5 to 8 sentences.
Was just amusing about this phenomenon. It all comes down to how you define "well". "well" as in quick, or "well" as in "easy to do".
My posts are not too serious this time.
Fair winds and good luck.
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: Tacking the A in big wind?
[Re: Wouter]
#105483 05/03/07 08:16 AM 05/03/07 08:16 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 778 Houston carlbohannon
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Posts: 778 Houston | When reading this post my eye noticed this and my mind wondered : The boat tacks extremely well
...
The bottom line is it takes a lot of practice.
Not talking about the same thing. The boat manuvers easily and the skipper is trying to teach himself to tack the boat perfectly, everytime. | | | Re: Tacking the A in big wind?
[Re: Wouter]
#105484 05/03/07 08:43 PM 05/03/07 08:43 PM |
Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 805 Gainesville, FL 32607 USA dacarls
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Posts: 805 Gainesville, FL 32607 USA | What Bob Hodges said. If you are dreamy-eyed in a breeze (or initiate tiller movement but delay coming in), the A will tack by itself before you are ready, and now you are on the wrong side. Ooops, Splash. Practice the hand changes and move properly and these little boats tack like a dream. Carving and HOLDING the tiller at the correct angle is critical to complete a fast tack, which is what Johnny Lovell is doing when he is watching the wake. Way cool = 13 seconds wire to wire? Less?
Dacarls: A-class USA 196, USA 21, H18, H16 "Nothing that's any good works by itself. You got to make the damn thing work"- Thomas Edison
| | | Re: Tacking the A in big wind?
[Re: dacarls]
#105485 05/03/07 11:49 PM 05/03/07 11:49 PM |
Joined: Apr 2004 Posts: 713 WA, ID, MT davefarmer OP
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Posts: 713 WA, ID, MT | Wow! Awesome responses, thanks! With this input I can come up with a pretty clear idea of how to do it efficeintly. It's apparent that I'm just not committing, being unfamiliar with a new boat and frankly , pretty spooked about a boat this light in these winds. But I know it's doable, and that I'll get better with practice. And that with more hours on it, my confidence will improve, and that should help holding on longer and jumping at the right time. Thanks again for all the generous advice. I enjoy this exchange immensely. What a great deal to be able to get tips from those of you even more seriously addicted than myself! One of the reasons I got the boat was for the challenge, and it looks like I won't be disappointed. Gonna drag it over the Flathead Lake tomorrow, and leave it there til Flight Risk goes in (June, when the water comes up so I can use the lift).
Dave | | |
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