SURPRISE!!

What I don't know about pre-bend and sail shape would fill volumes.

Anybody wanna get into it?

Ahh yes Mr. Tiki, it is a well known documented and tried fact that you can prebend your mast until you hear the snap at least once .......Chief Yusempartsalot...Ugg

So-- who gives real racing lessons in good old Florida?
They have professinal TRAINERS in Europe even for
%)(#$%^&(* ping-pong!

Randy Smyth will be glad to coach you for a reasonable fee

wonder what "reasonable fee" is.

Take Rick White seminar. I have the tapes and they are great. Can't imagine what it would be like to be there. 300-500 tacks and so.

Doug

I think they are looking more for specific one-on-one tuning and sail trim and speed training.

Bob Curry says he is available for that kind of coaching, too.

I have no idea what the rates are for either Bob or Randy.

Robbie Daniel offers one-on-one coaching, too. You get two free days with the purchase of a boat from Jill, but I know he offers a daily rate as well. Cost varies on his schedule and what you want, I expect. I took it pretty seriously and felt it was well worth the time and money.

I hear Matt Struble is beginning to offer instruction. John Casey is considering it, as well. I think it benefits everyone when guys at the top of the game start trying to push some knowledge down the ranks. I got years of free instruction by crewing for anyone that would have me. I also learned that all that theory matters little without practical experience to go with it... no substitute for stick time. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Stick time is key of course... gotta do that before anything else.
I have learned a lot crewing recently but it is still different driving yourself and it can be hard to have someone more experienced than you "volunteer" to go out with you while you drive (hard for them... as they have been there and done that etc).
I might be interested in having that type of coaching one of these days. I am in a good place for it. Smyth and Curry just down the street and all that.

The seminar is great for "boot camp" type stuff with tons of tacks/gybes. It really gets your boat handling up to speed because you are always sailing with a lot of other boats and doing starts. As an added bonus, there are more than just windward and leeward marks to round -- these things called "Waves" function as different types of stationary marks you gotta deal with <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />.
I feel like I need some one on one work with sail trim.

You can always pick up a few things watching the America's Cup racing. Check out race two. Specifically, the start, first downwind leg rounding at the gate. Then the entire second upwind leg...............speaking of reading the wind on the water! Plus, there were a lot of other things happening on that second upwind leg it would appear,

Robbie is a possiblity. Except he is never home! Currently in Portugal I believe.

Check this thread, very informative:

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...amp;page=43&fpart=1&vc=1

Especially what Wouter, MTowell and scooby contribute

Very good thread. Wish there were some more specific discussion of how the rotator affects all of it though.
like- in high wind you depower by allowing less rotation - is this because of the air flow get disrupted or does it allow the top of the mast to bend off more in gusts? (you could say that it bends off more with it completely rotated because the downhaul/spreaders/prebend are bending the mast more that way). it is rocket science i tell ya

Try not to get all caught up in theory. Keep it simple. Think of a mast with exaggerated prebend. The less rotation you have the flatter the sail since the mast is bowed out so much. As you rotate, the tension on the sail eases allowing for a fuller sail. You don't need to worry about all that other stuff when you're just getting started.......

Basically, if you have the prebend correct, less rotation to depower like in heavier air. (flattens the sail) More rotation for a fuller sail (more power) as the wind speed decreases.

Test this on the beach next time you sail. Do some dry sailing. Turn the boat into the wind like it would be while sailing up wind. Sheet in, set downhaul, then set for lots of rotation . Then get behind the boat a ways so you can see the effect on the main. Now setup for minimum rotation. then check sail from behind the boat again or from which ever angle helps.

Easing the sheet will also give you a fuller sail.

You can also think of an airplane on takeoff with flaps down for a " fuller" wing.(more power/lift) As the speed of the plane increases the pilot " flattens" the wing (brings in the flaps)

Don't forget to adjust the downhaul as well.

Wow, are those guys really sailing boats or writing some type of thesis for a post-graduate degree in sailing theory.

Here's an easier way. Get the prebend number from the tuning guide, manufacturer, or an "expert" sailor for your type boat. Which would include spreader rake, diamond wire tension, and total mast bend so you can check it. Then all you have to know is rotate for power; derotate to depower.

If you find you still cannot keep your boat down when the wind is up, you may want to crank in more diamond tension on those days or for those races. You can mark your mast for your high and low setting.

BTW, get the proper mast rake while your at it.

That's a very dangerous idea because, it has me thinking! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Obsessing is pro'ly a better term!

If it scares you a bit, have someone sit on the boat or hold the mainsheet in your hand in case the wind comes up. You should have the mainsheet in your hand anyway so you can see how the sail looks as you ease the sheet or sheet in. Sometimes you gotta back away from that keyboard and try out some real life sailing scenarios.............

I've even flown a hull on the beach a few times. Quite enjoyable actually, and you don't have to worry about spilling your beer since you are standing on the beach.

Tom

Apprentice Keyboard Sailor #124

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Not that kind of fear! Fear of my own run away imagination!

After this years aborted JPOR, I understand very well about wind and boats sitting on the beach.

You mean like this?

I have to do that on my Mystere 4.3 because of the jib setup everytime I go out. If not I can't get the jib to stay up. It is a pain, but there is always someone around willing to help you.

Doug