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broke my spin pole! #111071
07/09/07 01:26 PM
07/09/07 01:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 440
Graham, NC
WindyHillF20 Offline OP
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WindyHillF20  Offline OP
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Graham, NC
Heading out thru the surf. Hit a 6' wave straight on while powered up. The wave broke across the front crossbar and as the boat rose the pole snapped in half. I can't see that I could have done anything differently. If I turned the wave would hit me sideways so straight into it was the only option, IMO. Is there a proper way to drive a end pole snuffer thru waves without breaking it?

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: broke my spin pole! [Re: WindyHillF20] #111072
07/09/07 06:10 PM
07/09/07 06:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Dan_Delave Offline
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Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
I have never even been in a situation that I had to consider what I would do with a spinpole in excessive surf. I have not sailed a cat out in conditions like that since I sailed a Hobie 16. I do not think I would try. I just had my spinpole break while coming into the dock when a new crew decided to use it for a "stay out of the water free card"...did not work. They are fragile on the pull down as they are only supported to take load from spinnaker tack.

Dan

Re: broke my spin pole! [Re: WindyHillF20] #111073
07/09/07 06:34 PM
07/09/07 06:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 337
Victoria, Australia
C2 Mike Offline
enthusiast
C2 Mike  Offline
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Posts: 337
Victoria, Australia
Quote
Heading out thru the surf. Hit a 6' wave straight on while powered up. The wave broke across the front crossbar and as the boat rose the pole snapped in half. I can't see that I could have done anything differently. If I turned the wave would hit me sideways so straight into it was the only option, IMO. Is there a proper way to drive a end pole snuffer thru waves without breaking it?


Wow - that must have been a steep wave. I doubt there was much you could do - maybe a mid pole would help. Thats all I can think of.

Tiger Mike

Re: broke my spin pole! [Re: C2 Mike] #111074
07/09/07 06:37 PM
07/09/07 06:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
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Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
And now he'll have a good reason to try a mid-pole <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Re: broke my spin pole! [Re: Will_R] #111075
07/09/07 07:05 PM
07/09/07 07:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 461
Sydney Australia
Berny Offline
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Berny  Offline
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Sydney Australia
I had it happen to me on the Harbour. Big cruiser doing some ridiculous speed making 4ft bow waves 4ft apart. Got over the first one and the second but the third one had me comming down off the second and filled the snuffer.
My pole only bent but it spoiled the run home.

I've decided that given the same circumstances I'll bear away and take them at 45deg.

Re: broke my spin pole! [Re: Berny] #111076
07/10/07 09:20 AM
07/10/07 09:20 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 833
St. Louis, MO,
Mike Hill Offline
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Mike Hill  Offline
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Posts: 833
St. Louis, MO,
I saw it happen at Virgina Beach F18 Nationals a couple years ago. A couple of youth sailors were just sitting around between races. Not much wind. Dare I say that it was at least 5 knots. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> A wave came out of nowhere while they were just laying in the middle of the tramp and put the bow down and snapped the pole in an instant. The wave was pretty minor too. I think the flat water exasperated the situation because it just flung the boat down and rocked the end pole snuffer into the water. Very sad really.

Mike Hill


Mike Hill
N20 #1005
Re: broke my spin pole! [Re: Mike Hill] #111077
07/10/07 09:45 AM
07/10/07 09:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
I had a wave at a race last year take the bag off the mid pole hoop and then had the little line that holds the hoop straight tear out at Lake Pont. Never broke a pole though. I think the midpole systems are more likely to tear the hoop off the pole than damage the pole given that the support to hold the pole up is right there. Tearing the hoop off and damaging that is probably more expensive than just breaking the pole though.

Re: broke my spin pole! [Re: Mike Hill] #111078
07/10/07 09:48 AM
07/10/07 09:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
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Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Quote
Dare I say that it was at least 5 knots. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Yes, you dare. And so do I.

That end-pole offers an awful lot of resistance in water... there are only a few left, AFAIK, and it isn't something that is stocked anymore. I think Mike Fahle had a line on someone who could make replacements - Mike? I had that same style snuffer head on the 4.3, though I kept it a lot higher than the Nacra boats do. It still dug in more than once and compounded already bad pitch-poles.

I'd agree with anyone who suggested you replace it with a mid-pole set up, even though that means getting your patches moved on the 'chute.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: broke my spin pole! [Re: John Williams] #111079
07/10/07 10:04 AM
07/10/07 10:04 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
Quote
I'd agree with anyone who suggested you replace it with a mid-pole set up, even though that means getting your patches moved on the 'chute.


You don't necessarily need to add a patch if you make the bag long enough <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Re: broke my spin pole! [Re: PTP] #111080
07/10/07 11:41 AM
07/10/07 11:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Quote
Quote
I'd agree with anyone who suggested you replace it with a mid-pole set up, even though that means getting your patches moved on the 'chute.


You don't necessarily need to add a patch if you make the bag long enough <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


And what? Douse while facing backwards? At least the crew could see the last second display of shock on the skippers face before impact.


Jake Kohl
Re: broke my spin pole! [Re: Jake] #111081
07/10/07 03:11 PM
07/10/07 03:11 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 440
Graham, NC
WindyHillF20 Offline OP
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WindyHillF20  Offline OP
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Graham, NC
The pole is 40mm outer dia. Where can I find a replacement for this broken piece?

Re: broke my spin pole! [Re: WindyHillF20] #111082
07/10/07 03:41 PM
07/10/07 03:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
onlinemetals.com, http://onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=71&showunits=mm&step=2&sortby=od
or you can go stock from performance I am sure (if this is a nacra boat).

Last edited by PTP; 07/10/07 03:45 PM.
Re: broke my spin pole! [Re: PTP] #111083
07/10/07 07:01 PM
07/10/07 07:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
or www.mcmaster.com...though metric materials will be difficult to find, you should search for an english dimension.


Jake Kohl
Re: broke my spin pole! [Re: PTP] #111084
07/10/07 10:52 PM
07/10/07 10:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 606
Maryland
Kris Hathaway Offline
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Kris Hathaway  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 606
Maryland
Problem I have with replacing spin pole is shipping. Recently, had to replace mine only to find out that shipping would be more than the pole itself. UPS frowns at anything more than 6 feet. Fortunately, a local merchant had one in stock.


Kris Hathaway
Re: broke my spin pole! [Re: John Williams] #111085
07/10/07 11:32 PM
07/10/07 11:32 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 62
s. cackalacky
Bonnie Offline
journeyman
Bonnie  Offline
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Posts: 62
s. cackalacky
Quote
Quote
Dare I say that it was at least 5 knots. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Yes, you dare. And so do I.

But was it 5 knots at every point on the course?

Wait, Magic 8 Balls can be used as wind meters, right? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Re: broke my spin pole! [Re: PTP] #111086
07/11/07 02:12 PM
07/11/07 02:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 440
Graham, NC
WindyHillF20 Offline OP
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WindyHillF20  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 440
Graham, NC
Thanks so much for the links! Heres what I've found so far...my broken pole is 40mm OD 1.8mm wall and 34.8mm ID.
I found a piece thats 38.1mm OD 1.65mm wall and 34.8mm ID, my concern is that the wall is too thin. Will .15mm make a huge strength difference? Price is $59.40 plus $25 shipping as I only need 9'.

Re: broke my spin pole! [Re: WindyHillF20] #111087
07/11/07 02:16 PM
07/11/07 02:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
Carpal Tunnel
PTP  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
I don't think it will make much of a difference but the engineers around could give you a better idea. One other thing to consider is that the aluminum from those places is not anodized (I assume you are going with onlinemetals). This isn't that big of a deal IMO. BIggest drawback is that it gets your hands dirty if you handle it alot... but once again, I'll defer to the engineers.

p.s. someone else had a good point about shipping. I am not sure where you are but you can sometimes find old windsurfer masts that would work or a metal supply store around that might have something that would work and save you the shipping.

Last edited by PTP; 07/11/07 02:18 PM.
Re: broke my spin pole! [Re: WindyHillF20] #111088
07/11/07 02:22 PM
07/11/07 02:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Quote
Thanks so much for the links! Heres what I've found so far...my broken pole is 40mm OD 1.8mm wall and 34.8mm ID.
I found a piece thats 38.1mm OD 1.65mm wall and 34.8mm ID, my concern is that the wall is too thin. Will .15mm make a huge strength difference? Price is $59.40 plus $25 shipping as I only need 9'.


You already broke one with the thicker wall...so the engineer in me says that the thinner one will not hold up any better. But for reference all the Nacra poles (N20, F18, etc) are .0625in wall (1.65mm)


Jake Kohl
Re: broke my spin pole! [Re: WindyHillF20] #111089
07/11/07 03:23 PM
07/11/07 03:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 330
S
srm Offline
enthusiast
srm  Offline
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S

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 330
.15mm ~ .006". Six thousanths (the thickness of two human hairs) is not going to make a noticiable difference and is probably about the manufacturing tolerance of the tubing anyway (based on the fact that it's only a $60 piece of tubing). I.e. if you measure the wall thickness at various locations along the tubing, it probably varies by a few thousanths anyway.

sm

Re: broke my spin pole! [Re: srm] #111090
08/14/07 10:15 AM
08/14/07 10:15 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 440
Graham, NC
WindyHillF20 Offline OP
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WindyHillF20  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 440
Graham, NC
So, here I am. Have acquired 2 pieces of extrusion and neither work. I am seriously considering turning this in on insurance as a mid-pole system is the only available at roughly $600. I would prefer to stay with the endpole system but apparently my current pole is european spec and not available in the states. Hobie cannot or will not give me measurements on their current poles so I have no idea if they will work. Any other suggestions? I have purchased a nearly new 3 point chute with a fiberglass pole and homemade snuffer system. Just not wild about the fiberglass windsurfer pole, would prefer aluminum. Fiberglass pole is light, not sure about its strength.

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