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Rudder cams #113549
08/04/07 12:34 PM
08/04/07 12:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 27
Eastern Massachusetts
S
swanbike57 Offline OP
newbie
swanbike57  Offline OP
newbie
S

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 27
Eastern Massachusetts
I already replaced the rudder cams, plungers and springs. The cams still don't seem to behave well. (They don't pop into the open position.) I was thinking of installing stainless steel grease zerk fittings so I can squirt grease into the void where the plunger springs are located, and then grease would work its way up onto the cams and keep this area really well lubricated, without having to disassemble anything. Anybody else do this?

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Rudder cams [Re: swanbike57] #113550
08/04/07 01:25 PM
08/04/07 01:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 22
Indiana
swaompfox1 Offline
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swaompfox1  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 22
Indiana
Try taking some of the tension off the springs. I use dry silicone on the springs the same kind used for the traveler tracks and about everything else.

Re: Rudder cams [Re: swaompfox1] #113551
08/07/07 11:52 AM
08/07/07 11:52 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 306
St. Louis, MO
hobienick Offline
enthusiast
hobienick  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 306
St. Louis, MO
Don't use grease! It will only hold sand and small pebbles in the area you are trying to lubricate. This will exacerbate your problem.

Go to the hobie website and look at the FAQ section on how to adjust your rudders.


Nick

Current Boat
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Previous Boats
'84 H16
'82 H18 Magnum
'74 Pearson 30
St. Louis, MO
Re: Rudder cams [Re: hobienick] #113552
08/07/07 12:44 PM
08/07/07 12:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
mmiller Offline
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mmiller  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
I use grease. Depends on your beach conditions. If you have a lot of blowing sand, you may have to wipe and re-lube more often. If you use a lithium grease, you should only have to lube a few times a year max.

From the Hobie Forums FAQ:

http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=467


<<CAMS -

The Hobie rudder cam system is pretty easy to deal with if you keep it greased. Use marine grease, if possible, between the cam and plunger. Anything will do as a temp lubrication: Suntan lotion, WD-40 or Chap Stick etc. Marine or bearing grease just stays there longer. Lubricating the system will prevent damage to the cam and plunger that is caused when the cam gets stuck in the down position.

A tight fit is required between the upper arm and cam (lower casting) when the rudder is locked down. The rudder should be held firmly against the lower casting. Any rudder movement, aft from the casting, indicates a miss-adjustment that can allow the upper arm to disengage from the cam without forcing it to rotate into the open (unlocked) position.

If the cam sticks in the down position there are several methods to get it to rotate release. From above and forward of the assembly, lift the upper arm and rotate it aft and out of the way. Loop a line around the cam&#65533; yank the line to pop the cam open. You can also use the tiller arm to assist this technique by wrapping the line around the cam, then lowering the tiller arm and wrapping the line a few times around the tiller arm. Pull up on the tiller arm which (through the line) levers the cam open. There are several tools that can also be used. I use a large blade screwdriver that can be inserted into the side of the cam to leverage it open. There is also a tool (Hobie Part # 83103 / 2003 Catalog page forty eight) that has a small hook that can be used (by drilling a small hole in the cam to allow it to be inserted) for leverage. You can also use a small flat blade screw driver to work between the cam and plunger... force the plunger down to unlock the cam. I find that this works very well even if the cams are dry and unlubricated.

If the cam is really stuck down, the only tool needed is a small blade screwdriver. You work the blade between the cam and plunger to force the plunger down and release the cam. Don't bother with the big screw under the spring they often are fused in place and the spring does not need to be adjusted but a few times in the life of the boat.

If the cam keeps getting stuck down, even when greased, there is a miss adjustment in the upper casting plate (newer boats), the rudder is drilled wrong causing too much play in the system or it is worn out (too flexible) where it hooks the upper casting.

A cam plate too far forward can keep the cam from fully locking. A cam plate too far aft will allow the rudder to slip aft in the lower casting or allow the upper casting to be raised without pulling the cam open. To adjust the upper plate, lock the rudder down and hold the rudder firmly against the lower casting (forward most position). Loosen the upper plate then back it away from the cam a little. You want to seat the plate tight against the cam (in the fully locked position) while holding the rudder forward in the lower casting. Ease the plate forward while wiggling the upper arm up and down just a bit. The idea is to find the point of deepest insert that the upper plate can get into the cam. That may mean that the upper casting is not touching the lower casting. Don't force the plate too far forward as this will begin to force the cam open. When tightening the plate, be sure the plate doesn't move. I usually tighten with the wrench handle rotating forward towards the cam to move the plate forward if anything.

RUDDER RAKE -

Rudder rake (forward or aft in the lower casting) changes the helm feel. Weather helm (pull on the tiller) is caused by the rudder being aft of neutral. Lee helm is caused by the rudder rake being too far forward. Best adjustment is to have slight weather helm on all sailing angles. This allows you to hold the till agains a slight pull for stable sailing angles. The boat should round up slowly if you drop the tiller. Lee helm is dangerous and can cause you to loose control of the boat. Neutral helm can be difficult as the tiller is pulling and or pushing against you on different sailing angles and can cause you to have erratic steering.

On older boats, rudder rake is adjusted by re-drilling the rudder blade. Either the upper casting hole or possibly both. Newer boats use the upper casting plate (see adjustment under "CAMS" above) and set screw in the lower casting for rake adjustments. There is a basic rudder rake setting to compare to. You can also use a drilling template http://www.hobiecat.com/support/tech/rudder.html

For proper rake adjustment you may need to try several settings. Helm feel will change with different mast rake, sailing angles and sail settings...

Start off with the rudders in the locked down position. Measure down the blade 12" from the bottom of the lower casting. Mark the rudder with a line 2" long perpendicular to the 12" point (fore and aft on the blade). Using a very thin piece of line, starting at the top of the rudder pin, align the "line" with the rudder pin top to bottom (on the pins center line / axis) and check where the line intersects the mark on the rudder. Mark the point where your rudder pin axis crosses the mark you made 12" down the blade. Measure in from the front of the rudder. A larger measurement means that the rudder is raked forward more. More forward rake is less weather helm. Optimally, you should have 1 5/8" to 1 3/4" for a measurement. To achieve the 1 3/4" number, you might have to re-drill the front hole on the rudder or file away at the front of the rudder where it hits the casting. To much forward rake can cause lee helm and THAT is WORSE and even dangerous. The boats sail better and are safer if the boat rounds up slowly when the tiller is released.

You can use the above technique to measure and re-drill a blade. Mount the blade on the lower casting. Make all of the above measurements and set (and hold) the rudder in the desired rudder rake position. Lock the upper casting onto the rudder and lower casting. Push the upper assembly up into the cam to seat it tightly (that holds the rudder in the raked position once the rudder system is fully set up). Align the tiller arm angle (vertical position) with the rudder assembly on the opposite side of the boat. You can mark the bolt hole position or drill right through using the casting as a drill guide. You must hold the upper arm in position while drilling this way. I angle the drill slightly forward rather than straight through. This forces the upper casting forward more as the drill reaches the opposite side of the casting after going through the rudder blade. If the hole is too far aft, the rudder will slip aft a bit when under sailing loads.

RUDDER ALIGNMENT -

Check rudder alignment in the direction of travel. Proper rudder alignment would be 1/8" to 1/4" toe-in on a 14 or 16. This is measured with the rudders down. Measure leading edge to leading edge and then trailing edge to trailing edge. The front (toe) should be closer together than the trailing edge. Measure at about the little hump on the leading edge and straight back from there for the trailing edge. It is always possible that the rudders are actually mounted on the reverse hulls. That causes extreme toe-in problems. Look at the upper casting / arms to be sure they angle in towards the boat's centerline when the rudders are in alignment with the hulls.>>


Hobie Cat Forums
Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
Re: Rudder cams [Re: mmiller] #113553
08/07/07 03:46 PM
08/07/07 03:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 321
Albuquerque NM
Banzilla Offline
enthusiast
Banzilla  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 321
Albuquerque NM
Quote
Look at the upper casting / arms to be sure they angle in towards the boat's centerline when the rudders are in alignment with the hulls.>>


My upper castings are actually marked inside with a ULR and URR for upper right and upper left if you have the rudders out of the castings.


[b] Sail Like you have a Pair
Re: Rudder cams [Re: Banzilla] #113554
08/18/07 08:52 PM
08/18/07 08:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2
Cadillac, MI
V
volklgirl Offline
stranger
volklgirl  Offline
stranger
V

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2
Cadillac, MI
Sorry for the slight hi-jack......

I have the opposite problem - the cams won't stay locked down. We replaced 1 of the plungers when it disintegrated this year, but the other is still the original (the old style with the loose ball). How do I determine if the repeated kick-up is due to worn cams, springs, plungers, or other parts?

ps. Old style non-adjustable rudder rake castings, rudders already re-drilled.

Thanks, Kris


73 H16 #5153 "Hopefully Upright". 99% original - repairing/replacing as needed.
Re: Rudder cams [Re: volklgirl] #113555
08/25/07 11:21 AM
08/25/07 11:21 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
mmiller Offline
veteran
mmiller  Offline
veteran

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
Likely a cam not staying locked is a cam not actually locking completely. The new cam may be a mismatch to the old drilled rudders. Lock the cam down by itself and then sight into the front of the casting (area under where the the tiller arm would be) there is a small "window" where you can see a feature on the cam that you can reference for the "full locked cam" position. Mark the casting at this feature point on the casting. Open the cam and then lock the rudder / tiller arm down and check again. Likely the cam is not rotating fully closed. You may have to wallow the upper casting bolt hole open a little. Remove the upper bolt. Lock the rudder and tiller arm down once again. Be sure to slide the tiller arm forward into the cam recess completely, but not so far as to force the cam open any. Re-check the cam "full lock position" again. Look into the bolt hole and you will likely see a slight misalignment. If so... just drill for proper position.


Hobie Cat Forums
Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
Re: Rudder cams [Re: mmiller] #113556
08/26/07 06:22 PM
08/26/07 06:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2
Cadillac, MI
V
volklgirl Offline
stranger
volklgirl  Offline
stranger
V

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2
Cadillac, MI
Wow. Thanks for that detailed explaination. I'll check it out tomorrow!!


73 H16 #5153 "Hopefully Upright". 99% original - repairing/replacing as needed.

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