OK,....last question,



....I noted a rule at this years MV A-Cat regatta....



....racing is halted at 22 mph of wind.......?



....why?







Bruce

St. Croix,





ps,...we find down here,...to get the Uni Rigs to perform downwind,...the boat starts coming 'alive' at 20 mph and really start to perform as the wind increases.....personally I call it 'quits' at 30mph, I have kids/wife/job you know.....so the boat doesn't quit, it is me!

Hello Rob,



Well I can be so predictable some times.



I checked up on the photo picks and indeed I could only tell by the different mainbeam of teh Taipan. Turns out that Jennifer won her class on the Taipan.



But seriously why don't Hobie and Nacra do that ?



Well it is very comparable to lightboat builder trying to build heavier boats like the F18. They can but it is not in their gens to do so. Sort of like an in house culture that stiffles progress.



This may sound like a nonsense argument at first but it is really true. I mean look at it from this way Why does a Inter 17 use the daggerboards of its bigger brother the inter 18 ? From a designers point of view it doesn't make sense but they do it still. Mostly to reduce costs, yes, but more importantly why do they feel the need to reduce costs when A-cat don't and are bought in bigger numbers than the 17's ?



Some of these companies don't see that the start of a good class is the building of a good class organisation. The big boat builders don't see it that way, they see the singlehander as a side show to the bigger F18's and sorts.



A-catters and also some builders in the 16 ft. class are looking at this differently.



BTW; lets not forget that the F18 was created by small boat relatively unknown builders like Alado; the big boy stept on the bandwagon later.



A guy from the F16 class mailed me that we should make contact with the big boys and make the F16 known to them. I say wait till we have the other light boat builders on board and have ample proof that they are likely to miss the boat.



One other thing about the big designers is that they are production companies and not really design companies. Yes you heard that right. Hobie boat the platform from Alado and teh FX-one and Fox are mediocre copies of the flyer design. Hardly any new stuff comes from the big names; however they are there when the market expands.



With respect to : why not a Taipan 4.9 or other F16 ?



People tend to think that 16 foot is to small. Ofcourse we are longer than 16 foot but we needed a name for the class. But more importantly; the F16 class has to fight the "kids boat" label. There is a magic ring to the names 18 and 20 ft and not to the 16 ft. Most of the time we explain our case and let it be, the platform will proof itself.



One good thing about the 16 foot 5 " length is that nobody believes it needs a low rating. The current PN is an absolute Peach ! 1st at tradewinds in their class, 2nd at RTI in their class, 1st in their class at apparently the wildcat race. All that without ex-olympic sailors sailing the boat. Yep, you can say that I'm a happy guy.



With a little luck we can welcome Glenn Ashby on of of thsoe 16 foot boats with a spi and really blow some doors of other boats.



>>If an I-17 weighed 200 lbs, I might own one of those instead of my A Class.



Well we're banking on something like that.



Wouter

What every boat makes you happy !



Some perfer the 16's and others the 18's and that is good.



BTW, there will never be a Tiger HT I can assure you that. Hobei would never bring a second 18 footer on the market only to compete with to old Tiger. That is really not in their interest.



And the H16 did very wel indeed at Texel, I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.



I made a mistake though they finished 44 minutes behind the leader and not 24 minutes. Some 28 % later than the leader on overall elapsed time. My point was that one does get more bang for the buck in newer designs and the bang is 28 % more speed. Still, I think that the rating system has proven to work here and I think it is very important that anyone has a good change of scoring high no matter what boat is sailed. I don't want everybody on F18's and Tornado either. A little diversity is good.



With respect to the F18 and F18HTs I'm not worried. There are still plenty of sailors outthere with requirements that these boats simply can't satisfy. I have a pretty good idea of of how these boats can and can not be used and also how some builders think about them. F16 class is secure



By the way if you want to read more on the 16 versus 18 topic please go to the following two posts :



http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...iew=expanded&sb=5&o=14#Post11286



http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...iew=expanded&sb=5&o=14#Post11245



Sometimes bigger is necessarily (much) better.



Wouter

Good advice mark.



Wouter

I always wondered what teh truth is in this situation.



Either the build aren't what they suppost to weight



OR



The builders are F%cking over the ISAF and Texel officials by supplying bogus boats as representative for the class.



Either way this situatiuon smells.



Wouter

Rob



Har far is "not too close"?



I think I'll try out the heat gun approach on my AHPC Flyer



thanks



sm

Bob,



How about that report on how the FX-1 sailed?



This has been a lively discussion, but...



Most of us have only seen photos of the FX-1 and would love to hear your experience with it. I'd also like to know if it has been sailed head to head with the I-17R and/or F16HP (e.g. taipan or stealth).



By the way, my '83 Nacra 5.0 is holding up really well (and believe me, dem hulls have been tested). I'd be happy to trade it with any of the "delicate" boats mentioned above if someone is looking for something sturdy.

wouter,do you actually own a boat or do you just run off at the mouth

Click attachement on the left or go to :



http://www.geocities.com/kustzeilen/Hobie_fx_one.html



And no, I don't own that one, three guesses why ?



Wouter

Click attachement on the left

Keep the heat gun at least 12 inches away. You can get as close as 8 inches, but you better make sure you keep the heat gun moving in any case. If you let it get too hot you will get little blisters in the gel coat. whoops. You may get a little discoloring too if you get too hot.



Try a spot not too visible to "practice" on.



BTW, Our biggest problem from denting is the occasional turning the boat over in the grass. We have Hickory nuts that have fallen from the trees that hide in the grass. These result in a nice round dent about an inch in diameter. No matter how hard you try to clear out the area or protect the hull, one of those things always finds its way under your boat.



At least they don't drop directly on the A Cats. You should see the hood of my truck from the last time I parked under those trees.

Couldn't have been much wind that day because that looks like Vassiliki and I don't see any windsurfers!

It is vassiliki and this photo was taken during the second race around lunch time. The wind was building a bit.



You've probably been there a few times too and you must know that the big wind fills in after midday. Most of the surfers don't come out of bed till lunch time, sleeping in and recovering from the night before. Ofcourse the cats and mono's had race day and were on the water by 10;30 AM.



There were some surfers out that early, the first few, but they stuck close to the beach and don't show on the pictures.



Mind you just over an hour later we the crossshore kicked in and I mean KICK in. Boats going over at A mark which was layed right up the windward sloop (Big gusts) .



I banged that FX throught it's gybes keeping my eyes shut and one hand on the rear beam; did the submarine job but recovered.



Did recently well but had a hard time keeping the boat from lifting all the time. I was hoping for a cross out for this race as I messed up my start and was damaging the good results of the 2 races in the morning.



Than when everybody went I stayed out to learn to keep the boat down and then I found that lifting the boards when going upwind made all the difference in the world. The boat wanted the drive rather than lift.



When all the boats returned the committe had altered the course and added a triangular loop right up there in Surf City.



Amid force 6 winds the committee boat tried to explain the course to me on the water but I couldn't see the bouy. Then they said just follow the lead boat. And as their was an excellent tiger crew there I thought that that would work as they would be in the lead anyway. Stupid me.



Had a good start in the fourth race. Was all the way down the line trying for a port start but the angles were wrong for a port start so I tacked back to starboard tack right under the Tiger crew that was suppost to be in the lead. The rest of the fleet were piled up near the starboard end. Had a very good upwind leg and covered the Tiger from lee they couldn't pass me to luff (uni-rig !)



Than the fleet spread and I had only eyes for my bows so that I didn't dive downwind. Hobie 16's blasting along all over the place. Near B I saw a few cats heading for Surf city as it became called. It was perfect windsurfer weather and all were out and sailing to the luff and lee of the C mark.



Normally I like solo sailing but now I really missed the my crew. Those surfers don't know anything about right of way. And ofcourse two surfers on a collision course did the imerengy manouvre right on C mark; jump in ! I had to luff the boat hard and she went out of control. I was blown backward with considerable speed and unintentionally tacked away from C mark. Now I had lost speed the surfers didn't see me as danger anymore and streak right in front of my bows and sterns, not realizing that I could strongly accellerate away. Once I found the hole in the crowd I janked on the mainsheet and didn't mind the C mark and hit it. Then I was really pissed. Made my 360 around the the A mark and away from the surfers. By that time I knew that that finishing would be my cross out. In those conditions everything must go perfect on a boat like the FX-one or the H16's will just pass you on handicap and many did.



So I think the answer should be : don't conclude to much from the pictures; there was definately wind that day. It was just a typical day at vassiliki, a mild seawind in the morning and a blasting crossshore in the afternoon.



Nice resort I must say. I did many hours of FX-one there, both singlehanded and doublehanded. I actually got everybody pulling up their boards at the end of my holliday last june. In the first days every other person declared my insane. Brobu most like you experienced when you pulled up your boards.



Anyways enough talk about the FX-one. I did enjoy myself thoroughly, but wouldn't mind not sailing that boat again.



Wouter

Have been there a number of times, usually windsurfing but I did Wildwind last time.



I can't say enough good things about the place, great wind, great staff, I have persuaded most of my Sailing club to go as a group next year so we should have a real blast.



I am amazed at you recollection of that race I have trouble remembering my own sail no.

I've been three 3 times and a total of 5 weeks and will be there next year.



I live for that sail, maybe that is the reason I can remember it so well. Also I thouroughly checked out the FX-one as I just had started the Fomula 16 class at that time. Picture is from 2001.



But my best memory is of sailing a laser for the second time in my life in the cross shore. MAN !!! that is scary !



Wouter

Hello again,



I weighed my FX-One using fairly accurate scales:



Total Weight (Uni-Configuration, no jib, no spinnaker) = 313 lbs (About 11 lbs lighter than Texel is reporting)



Breakdown:





Basic Platform (Hulls, Crossbar, Trampoline) 198

Mast (With spreaders and main halyard) 44

Steering System (Rudders, pins, slave bar, tiller ext) 25

Mainsail (w/ battens, boom, mainsheet& block, cunningham) 21

Dagger Boards 20

Rigging (Sidestays, forestay, 1 trapeze set) 5



Total 313



Jib Kit (Jib, upper and lower furler, halyard, blocks & jib sheet) 8

Steve,



thanks,.....well that makes things interesting...!



..I wonder if the daggarboard ( @ 10 pounds a piece)...could be redesigned like the tiapan 4.9 boards ( they cut out the middle that is supported by the hull in down position),...would make a nice weight reduction,...without sacrificing structural stenght,......just like the aero-industry......just a wonder.



Thanks , again



Bruce

St. Croix

Bruce (and Steve)_

There should be LOTS of room to lighten that boat along your thinking! My Taipan wieghs ~100 lbs. less in uni mode all up with my platform weighing ~140 lbs. Still leaves 60 lbs. difference in the "incidentals". I know when I weighed my old 18sq. like this (all the "bits") I was surprised by how the weight was "distributed" among things-

I could weigh my 4.9 components if you or Steve were interested to see where that 60 lb. difference is comparing the two-

Glad to see Hobie offerring the FX-one over here-



Kirt

...I'll attach some of the weights for my RC-27 components when I get home.



For now, her are some numbers by memory:



-mainsail w/ battens is 22 lbs.

-each hull weighs 190 lbs.

-main beam 67 lbs

-rear beam 55 lbs

-mast assembly (including spreaders, halyards, shrouds and other fittings) 113 lbs

The boat is about 925 lbs w/ sails.



When I include the entire spreadsheet you will all be amazed how much the weight is distributed amongst seemingly minor components.

I saw you were trying to post a picture with that.Let me try if I can get that to work.



Wouter