So this might just be my perception or it might be a localized thing, but I've noticed that the catsailing community doesnt belong to a yacth club.

I've been invited to sail at a couple of clubs -Bristol, American YC, Westport YC and I think this is the prefered way to go sailing. Usually they have mast up storage, and they have nice facilites, showers, buffet dinner after the regatta, Westport has keg on tap for the members.

By comparison most cat regattas are off a beach, and you have to show up early, set up, race and usually camp out or go to a hotel.

So my question is - Why dont catsailors belong to yacht clubs and organize races at the club?
Is this a case of the have's and the have not's?
Why dont YC's have cats?
Do the rich kids grow up at the YC and graduate from Opti's to dighny's to big boats and never experience anything else?
Do the catsailors think clubs are too stuffy and expensive?
Do YC's think cats take up too much room?
Is it because they need a ramp?
The only exceptions that I know of are Bristol YC - Acats and Roton Point YC has a bunch of cats including Patient Lady.

Bill

I am a member of a yacht club. Other than mast up storage, I get very little benefit from the club with regards to cat sailing. There is a great beach to launch from right in front of the club, right next to the pool, however, this is not were the few cats at the club are kept, and unless you get there early on the weekend, access to the beach will be blocked by cars parking in non-spaces on the grass. To launch, I have to take my boat outside the club to a sandy launch a bit down the road. Thankfully there are no power lines or other obstructions and I can tow the boat there on the trailer with the mast up. It is a great club to be a member at and I do a lot of other racing there, but they are not interested in developing or promoting cat sailing. I have offered on numerous occasions to take the kids in the youth sailing programs out on my boat to expose them to something other than a laser or 420, but so far, there has been no response.

I chose to be a member of this club because it really breaks the mold of the stereotypical stuffy yacht club. Sailing comes first there, and there are A LOT of extremely talented sailers that call the club home. It would be nice though to see more cat sailing there though.

I will like to hear the excuses on this topic thank you for posting it.

On the West Coast we have two groups. There are those who are members of Yacht Clubs and those who are not. Most of the Formula 18 and A-Cat sailors are members. Most of the Hobie 16 sailors are not. I mention these three classes of catamarans because they are the largest group that consistently race in this area. Most of the racing now is run out of Yacht Clubs. There are races that my Yacht Club will accept non-Yacht Club members to. We encourage membership of some organization that is an affiliate of the Southern California Yachting Association. Some of these are inexpensive and will let the sailors attend more events, still no sale. I do not understand this mentality. To ask Yacht Clubs to open their doors to catamaran sailing then not support the structure that they are a part of is ridiculous. Find out what it takes and do it.

Very few catamaran regattas are run off the beach and manned by the sailors like the old’n days. That would require someone to own a Committee boat and several mark boats. There are also Marks and other items that it takes to run regattas. The local Hobie fleet used to have a rather substantial trailer that carried all the gear to run a regatta. I do not know if that even exists anymore. It takes a ton of commitment to run an event. We now count on the Yacht Clubs who are set up and like to do this.

Another benefit to being a member of the Yachting organization that supports your regattas is, this is where we will find our future sailors. It used to be that catamarans were sold at boat shows and street visible dealers that were place every 10 miles or so in California. We are losing dealers so that you count on parts by mail there are so few now. We cannot promote this sport on the internet, you have to see it. To that end we have to be in front of the people most likely interested in our sport, other sailors. There are many people thinking about getting catamarans in my area because they see us sailing. It is fast, easy and relatively cheap compared to some of the alternative high performance boats out there.

Thank you for listening,
Dan DeLave

Other than the social aspect it has never appealed to me. Additional cost to gain what? In addition there are no true yacht clubs near where I live or near where I sail. I agree that exposure to cat sailing is good but question whether belonging to a club makes any difference. To me the gap between monosailers and catsailors is very similar to the gap between hikers and mt. bikers, both wish to control the same places for their benefit only. Or compare it to skaters and bmxers, both wish to ride in parks, but not with each other. My 2 cents worth!

In the SE (SC, NC, GA) most of our regattas are run out of clubs (Lake Norman, Keowee, Lanier, Columbia, James Island (Charleston), Pee Dee) and these clubs are friendly to catamarans. Most of us belong to one of these clubs in some fashion or another. Only a few regattas (Myrtle Beach, Spring Fever) are run without club affiliation. Most of us do not utilize the mast up storage because we are still so nomadic in traveling to the other clubs, we keep our boats at home but probably 20% of us do own other boats (monohulls) that we do keep at the clubs.

Mast up storage is great…. If you live within an hour or two of the club
A Marina with mast up storage is equally fine… The essential factor is what is the club about… Racing or cruising/beach parties. The most important factor is How many people in the area support that racing activity and show up for the club events. If but a handful of people share the same commitment to racing … you are probably better off with your boat on wheels traveling to events where you can pull from a large geographical area of sailors who want to go racing.. You get to critical mass on the race course this way.


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1) That is the key point… the place you are traveling to… IS A REGATTA… People are going there to GO RACING… They will gladly trade… hassle factor (set up and tear down) for competing against a bunch of committed racers. The key is critical mass on the race course… NOT a Fleet of boats on the beach with their mast’s up.

Since the regatta sites move around in the geographical area… everyone is traveling ... wait a bit and in three weeks …. It will be in your back yard.

2) Camping is a lifestyle choice lots of dingy sailors (albacores, comets, hamptons stars) don’t camp at all (hotels or stay with friends in the area) Personally, I like the camping… it’s a cheap way to enjoy the weekend outdoors.

3) An overlooked fact is that people get BORED sailing in the same place… Packing up and going to a different location adds to the interest factor…. New restauraunts, new scenery, A key point is that if everyone traveled… they hang around together and socialize… If its your home club… You can wash the boat off… grab a beer and go home to the honey do list… kids… TV whatever… but you are not socializing with your sailing buddies after 6 PM.

4) Lastly… cat sailors… whether it’s a A class or a Hobie 16 share something in common… We don’t share much with the monohull sailors on laser’s and 505’s or Albacores and Penguins. … Certainly, the Opti fleet is irrelevant. So… a party after a multiclass regatta…segregates… your 10 boat A class race… at the multiclass regatta is now a party of 10 old guys… The Hobie Multihull structure will give you a party with sailors from 50 boats who share a common bond.




1) Size of the event…. Take an average Div 11 hobie regatta… three classes.. 16, 17 and 18’s…. they get 40 to 50 boats on trailers with tow vehicles.. Even if the club could accommodate the regatta… the Rest of the club members will have their nose out of joint….. (couldn’t get my parking spot… No parking…. too many people using the shower… Why are we putting up with this crap….my boat is blocked in… I have heard it all).

2) Race Committee Duty and service to the club
When you have property… you have to maintain it… AND… the more you race… the more RC Work you have to put in. When you count up the time you can be sailing… The required RC Work, club service counts against your sailing time budget. Mind you… this is the point of view of a selfish competitor who does not have to make an event happen…. and rarely puts in more then a handful of hours making the racing happen.


3) Location, on the western shore of the Chesapeake… the power boat traffic is deadly… If you want to sail small boats in the summer… you are FAR BETTER OFF driving over the bridge and racing on the eastern shore or going south. Spring and Fall are great when the majority of boats are gone.



1) Actually, many of the New Jersey Yacht Clubs have LOST their standing Hobie and Nacra cat fleets through lack of interest. . I don’t think that the cost of the club is that much more then the cost of putting the boat in a marina/storage yard. So, I think its other factors.


Do the rich kids grow up at the YC and graduate from Opti's to dighny's to big boats and never experience anything else?
1) Cat’s are two person boats… Many of the CBYRA clubs can’t get kids to stay with a 420 program. Fishing Bay YC wil provide a team with a 420 for a regatta and then don’t have any takers. 10 boats will sit on the beach! Two person boats add to the parents headache… PLUS the power of a Hobie 16, requires older kids and those kids are off doing other things at that age…. so the pool of sailors is smaller. I tried to give kids a boat for junior event at Miles River YC. …. I only got two teams interested and they backed out at the last minute.


1) Stuffy … no… But like any organization… change is slow… When cats sailors join… the culture shock to the old members and the new cat sailors is high…


1) Sure… a 20 foot spin boat requires at least 9 and ½ feet and a LONG parking space. West River opened up… when they could not fill the place with active dinghy’s. Property is expensive and scarce.


1) Maintaining the ramp from erosion and slime is a PIA. A sandy Beach will require someone to clean them weekly and then dispose of the crap. PIA. Clubs hate this…. Docks require less effort. Floating docks a bit more effort. Beach…. PIA. CATS hate hoists… OK with ramps… Like sandy beach with grass on top.
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Hmm… you were at Rehoboth Bay Sailing Association for the F18HT races. Standing Hobie 16 and 18 fleet.
West River Sailing Club has a standing A class, Nacra 20 fleet and hosted the NA’s
West River Catamarna Racing has a standing open fleet with mast up…. No facilities.
Sandy Hook Bay Catamaran Club has 150 cats at the club with mast up storage, racing program etc. Hopactong YC has a standing A cat fleet.
I think Spray Beach and Shore Acres YC have a small standing hobie fleet of 16’s.

Now… when you actually have to organize and run an event… THEN you appreciate a yacht club. The infrastructure (RC Boats, marks, Flags) Seniors… who don’t race anymore but like to contribute on RC are IRREPLACEABLE. I think joining YC’s is the ONLY hope for our future… BUT… we have to manage the issues that I point out above.

I think the West Coast sailors are far far ahead of us on the east coast. I agree completely with Dan Delave... I think the future will be secured when we join and take over clubs.... WHILE managaging our socioloogy issues.

If you pull out the mast up storage costs... the YC dues probably cost you 200 bucks a year to maintain the RC gear..

I think that's reasonable... You have NO IDEA what it takes to round up a venue (Just ask the CRAM guys about Muskegon) volunteers, powerboats, food, gear, etc etc to pull of an event on a beach every three or 4 weeks.

IMO, we need to join yacht clubs, Contribue to the running of the club, work out a racing program that keeps critical mass of racers on the water and ensures that our events will continue well into the future. Some of the events we attend have been running for 70 years... I can't see us pulling off regattas on our own at state parks too much longer.

C'mon, man, we have a Porta-Pottie! And there's usually an open cooler of beer! Add a gravel road and an oyster-shell launch ramp, and you got everything you need and a little you don't!

Oh... that is that white thing nesteled in the trees... I noticed that all of the chicks hang out there! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think the "cat sailors are different" thing is peculiar to America. Certainly in the UK cat sailors DO join yacht clubs and that's where the racing is. At the end of the day, sailing is sailing and I'm glad I sail where I can race a cat one day and a yacht the next.

Yeah baby, chicks dig the Porta-Pottie! Only the best for our members!

Wow, I had a feeling this argurment would come up.
As I've grown older I've had the pleasure to be on both sides of everyone of those arguements. You forgot a couple though.
Water-skiers vs. Wakeboarders vs. Jetskiers vs. Powerboaters vs. Fishermen vs. Sailors, OR Snow skiers vs. Snow Boarders vs. Cross Country Skiers vs. Snowmobile

You get the point.

I've been able to have enjoyed all of these sports. And through it all I could say one thing for sure. "There are idiots in all sports." They are idiots because they think they're the only ones with a right to do their thing.

My solution is to become educated about the other side of the conflict. If you don't understand the YC culture then spend some time with them. Most are friendly, highly organized and the people have a passion for sailing. If they're not, then find another one.
Snowboarding grew in its infancy as a rebellion sport fueled by skateboard youth. Once they grew up and started spending money the lodges came to enjoy there presence in the competative market.
I think catsailors grew out of the youth of surfing. I'd say it's time for our sport to grow up too.

Having been to a regatta hosted by Dan DeLave's club, I was impressed with the infrastructure and support. And Dan looks mighty sporty in his club jacket! (I have got to get me one of those jackets.) <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Guess it all depends on the local Organizations. In the Northwest, we have a very strong Hobie Fleet in Div 4 see http://www.div4.hobieclass.com/. This is an all volunteer group that runs Regattas, has social events, all at a very low cost. This is a very family friendly group that is open to all. Some of the members also have big boats and belong to local Yacht Clubs.

Our local Community Sailing Center, Sail Sand Point in Seattle provides a low cost place to store boats, mast up, and conducts training for all ages and abilities. see www.sailsandpoint.org. This year two of the Hobie Regattas were held at Sail Sand Point. Low key monday night racing for all boats offers an excellent way to enter into the racing activity.

The key to our growth seems to hinge on the volunteer aspect, where all people take part and share ownership of the programs.

Caleb Tarleton

It doesn't hurt that you've got humongo buildings, parking galore, mast up storage over the horizon and launching ramps that'll handle an aircraft carrier. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Sign me, Jealous On Maui

Nice

BTW: I'm a huge ABYC fan.

In Australia every and all cat sailers who race are members of yacht clubs and the facilities and atmosphere are excellent. It makes racing a pleasure always, in fact at a few clubs, cat sailers are in the majority of the membership of boats that race.

I have never been much of a joiner...but I know I haven't had to dress in a sports blazer since I was in college!
Yacht clubs have always struck me as either too many loud people drinking too much alcohol or a lot of my old private college "better than thou" elitism.
I understand this makes me an ugly individual and just plain wrong about many clubs but I like to meet a couple of mates and just blast off the beach....As for the girls....chicks....women.
I am sailing, the last thing I want is "you're going too fast'....'it's cold"...."take little Mikey with you".

Hi All

In Oz, I think we have to be a member to enter regattas etc.. not that I wouldn't join anyway. Its those mentioned like hot showers, somewhere to have a rum afterwards, somewhere to store your boat, rescue boats, I'm sure there many other reasons to join a club, I wouldn't give a second thought to signing up.

Regards

In Key Largo we simply ran out of places to sail. They were all turning into condos. While some in our Wave fleet were a bit reluctant to join the local club, we all finally did, and it has been very good.
We were met with hostility at the beginning, but our class has been resposible for other classes rebirthing, and now sailing is happening there all the time.
We now have two on the Board of Directors, one of whom is Vice Commodore. And now we are getting things done

At Put-in-Bay, again everyone was not happy about joining the club, but is the only game in town. Again, there simply are no other places to launch and sail.
There had been no sailing for at least 10 years, and now we are racing twice a week. There is some interest stirring amongst the members about joining the group. We are now up to ten Waves.

So, in both cases, it has held the fleets together and allowed them to grow.

Before joining these clubs, they were indeed NOT sailing clubs anymore. They were more into social gatherings and parties. Personally, I do not see any benefits to paying dues to use the bar -- there are lots of free ones out there, and at home I also have a jacuzzi to soak in while nursing a ****.
But, if it creates sailing acitivity, then I am all for it.
Rick

I joined the local club to get my daughter into the juniors program. Turned out that was the only sailing program they had. A few of us have started to put the yacht back into yacht club but the vast majority of the members are there strictly for the food and bar.

Hi Dan

How many yacht clubs on the west coast have the space and local interest and are developing standing catamran fleets?

I assume that the other yacht clubs which don't have a cat fleet still participate in the regional sailing authority and offer you starts at their events.

On the Chesapeake, These CBYRA (our regional Sailing Authority)offer access to the water and beach cat racing.
West River SC, Miles River YC, Cambridge YC, Rock Hall YC, Corsica River YC, Naval Academy SS, Tred Avon YC, Potomac River YC, Southern Maryland SA, all support cat racing by offering beach cat starts.

Only the West River SC and Potomac river YC have a standing fleet of cats.

Fortunately for us, I was able to persuade these CBYRA clubs to not look so closely at the registration forms where it asks "what club do you belong to?"

Sadly, Many of the beach cat sailors don't belong to a club or US Sailing. So just like the west coast, in principle, you must be a club member of one of the CBYRA affiliates to race. You must also join CBYRA to be scored in High Point. You also get discounts on entry fees for US Sailing Membership.

This year, the schedule was based ENTIRELY on events sponsored by CBYRA yacht clubs after our local Hobie Fleet (Fleet 54) had to cancel their spring event and CRAC opted not to host their three annual events this year.

(The writing on the wall is getting larger and larger!)

Your point that we can't expect people to run races for us when we choose to not join a club and pay their dues and contribute service time is spot on.

Mark