True of False?

<They're monohulls, but they move faster than a Tornado cat, sailing upwind as fast as 13 knots, downwind close to 30 knots.>

http://www.sailingworld.com/sailboats/bo...-ing-53964.html

last time I talked to the Tornado boys, they aimed for 15 kts upwind; My F16 will do 13+ no problem

Downwind, if they are that fast, why have they not entered the Y+Y Speadfreaks

GPS plot or it did not happen <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think that what was decided in a discussion on sailinganarchy was that in straight line speed the moth would take it, but the tornado would win around the course.

Also the depth of skill is much high in the tornado class than the moth so your average moth sailor should not beat the average tornado.

But the T hasn't gotten faster in a long time, granted they did get a new rig and everything but the moth is developing very quickly, in another ten years it would not surprise me to see the moths beating everything on the water.

What about an A cat?
Probably a more fair comparison.
I hear rumors that this thing will beat an A around a windward leeward.
That's damn fast if it's true.

As Gree says, In a short burst a Moth might be quicker, but for any length of time the Tornado will win.

The "crash" factor in a moth means that one small mistake and you loose 100 yards.

maybe once the top moth guys can stay foiling the whole way around the course and at max speed they might have a chance, but that is still a long way away.

We've a couple of fair Moth sailors where I sail and I'll always beat them. No dublt they will get better (but then so will I hopefully).

The Foiling moth has potential, but to beat the Tornado round the cans will be a big job. The A class would also beat them at the moment around the cans.

We are all beating the A's around a course these days, therefor doing so is not very special anymore.

Wouter

A cats are fast to weather. But a chute boat will kill you downwind. A new Tiger finished 20 minutes ahead of all the Portsmouth dingys in the Wed nights two weeks ago. Uni boats without chutes get killed downwind. What I hated about my Hobie 17, before I got reacher.

Doug

An A in the right hands is still fast down wind. Just needs to be sailed right.

It has to be a pretty big crash now to lose much distance while racing, mild "crashes" when the hull just comes back into the water are not too major.

The top guy/s are foiling around the course 99% of the time, even during tacks when needed.

It all depends on conditions, but looking at the VYC yardstick. Foiler Moth - 83, A-Class - 71, F16 - 71.

Yes, but how much do the YYC adjust based on performance, is it like the US where you only move 25% per year ?

IU'd bet that the Moths were getting 25% faster each year.

06-07 VYC Yardsticks
05-06 VYC Yardsticks

I think it just changes as required based on the results that are handed in by the class association, no limit to how much it can change between revisions.

Apparently Rohan's results in the foilers do not generally get counted for the yardstick calculation because he is generally so far ahead of the rest. When you're winning most 20-25 minute races of a worlds by 5 minutes, you're an anomaly and shouldn't be counted statistically.

Cat classes that prohibit foils will be beaten by other foiled anomalies. It is only a matter of time.

Once out of the water and on a foil any construction is no longer a boat.
Why go to foils on cats when a mono will always create less windage and end up faster. The moth is a boat made into a foiler. When someone designs a foiler from scratch will they think...cat? I don't think so.
A mono with outrigger foils will be the quickest and most stable......so would that be a tri???
If you want to sail single handed and go fast...get a windsurfer.....put a foil on a windsurfer.........Just put a foil on your feet!......kite foiling!

Ba! Humbug!!

Great post!
I can think of two reasons why I would prefer a multihull platform: takeoff speed and stability.

- Multihulls reach foiling speed earlier and/or with less wind.
- Multihulls provide a stable platform for foilers, while monohulls depend a lot on crew skill.

A trimaran is the preferred platform because its geometry provides a large lever arm for the main foils and this helps stabilize the boat.

But you are right: basically we can think of Hydroptére as a monohull foiler that needs the huge beam between the foils for stability. The tiny floats are there only to keep the boat upright until takeoff. It just looks a lot like a tri.

However, if we want to carry more payload in this type of "foiled monohull with tiny floats", its takeoff speed will grow higher and it will need longer floats for stability at near takeoff speeds. It will end up being a regular tri with foils.

Kitefoiling could become popular: Wear your foiled shoes and take off <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

But why exclude him? He is sailing the boat to it's current potential(I'm sure there is more in the boat); if people cannot do so, then they need to get better. Does Rohan ever race on handicap ?



From the Moth worlds report on Y+Y he won one race by 5 mins (and it does not say the duration of the races, but Garda races are usually an hour+) and 8 in a row. Yes he is the best Moth sailor in the world, he is showing the others how to do it. But is it fair to rate the Moth SLOWER than it plainly is just because the rest of the fleet have not caught up with him - I don't think so.

His results count for YVC as does the best in any class. When he has raced mixed fleet, they have been sent to the YA.

Bladerider marketing BS..... As the F16 class in OZ spewed in the class' youth in the Austrailian Sailing Magazine. Take it all with a grain of salt. When the class flag drops the bull $hit stops.

The Moths are not even beating the 18 skiffs in Oz yet, let alone the Tornadoes. Looks like the 18s are realising that the F18s have their number too.

From the Brass Monkey regatta last month. All times are in seconds.

Race 1 and 2 were in fresh conditions. 15 to 25 knots.
Race 3 and 4 in lighter. Race 3 in 5 to 8 knots, race 4 in 7 to 10 knots.

Race1

1539 Sea Wind F 18
1822 SX Projects 18ft Skiff
2001 Hollywood goes Tiger Moth Foiler
2052 O 12ft Skiff
2124 Politese FD
2204 Dipolar 12ft Skiff
2216 CST Composites 12ft Skiff
2581 Chick n Wings 49er

Race2

1961 Sea Wind F 18
2425 SX Projects 18ft Skiff
2485 O 12ft Skiff
2679 Politese FD
2825 Hollywood goes Tiger Moth Foiler
2828 Dipolar 12ft Skiff
3003 CST Composites 12ft Skiff

Race3

2571 SX Projects 18ft Skiff
2623 Sea Wind F 18
2796 Chick n Wings 49er
2957 O 12ft Skiff
3021 Dipolar 12ft Skiff
3107 CST Composites 12ft Skiff
3327 Politese FD
3794 Hollywood goes Tiger Moth Foiler

Race4

1513 Sea Wind F 18
1651 SX Projects 18ft Skiff
1928 Chick n Wings 49er
2060 O 12ft Skiff
2134 CST Composites 12ft Skiff
2233 Politese FD
2234 Dipolar 12ft Skiff
2789 Hollywood goes Tiger Moth Foiler

Have you tried to sail a moth pre-foiling? Try it and I promise that a foiling short / lightweight cat begins to make sense.

I have sailed a foiler and skiff moth and find it easier to sail the foiler than the narrow boat. But neither is easy anyway.

If it is a pure statistical evaluation of the yardstick, the extremes of the data should be neglected or their influence on the yardstick should be minimal. How it is treated by the committee is another matter.