Afternoon, all.

I think there is a rating modifier for installing wings on a boat not so equipped. But what about hiking racks?

My father is past the age of trapping, so I am considering a rack setup for the helm position. His feet would still be on the hull, so it wold be pretty much the same as trapping in regards to righting moment. I would still trap as crew. I do not think the racks should be penalized the same as wings since you are not hiking off the end.

Your thoughts?

hiking rack = wings

There is a rating modifier for any boat with wings, whether factory installed or not. Hiking rack and wings are one and the same, same purpose, same benefit.

"There is a rating modifier for any boat with wings, whether factory installed or not."

The Hobie 21se and 17 come with wings (of course) and do not require an additional hit for them.

Lee

Why?
If we put on two traps no penalty? That isn't logical.

"My father is past the age of trapping". What does age have to do with it? If he can stand, he can trap (standing with assistance on the side of the boat)! Trapping is much easier than hiking. Besides, unless you two weigh almost nothing, it would take a pretty high wind speed to disadvantage you with only one not trapping off the rack/wing. Based on your perception that dear old dad cannot trap, then he probably would not be racing at all at such a high wind speed, so what difference does it make? The ratings are for the boat, not the sailors. Perhaps the word "handicap" in the ratings rule has given you the wrong impression.

Your request would have the same effect as asking for an allowance for not using the trapeeze when the wind is light. If the racks get you and your dad out racing and allow you to compete better, then the ratings adjustment seems appropriate as it is allowing you to hold the boat down better than you could without it, right? Otherwise, you will open a real can of worms trying to get ratings relief for anyone unable (temporarily or permamnently) to best utilize the equipment on their boats. While that may seem unfair to you, that is not the purpose of the ratings rules and the available adjustments. They are designed / intended to make the boats even, not the crews.

He's 74. Good shape physically but now at the age where minor falls for us are not so minor fir him. Honestly, there are not a lot of years left he can race a boat like this but I am damn sure going to do whatever I can to see he can and try to mitigate the risk.


My argument is that the hiking rack does not provide any more righting moment than a trap. Your bodies center of mass is no farther away from the rail. Using a wing it most definitely is.

With all the good will in the World, and this is coming from a non-compliant personality type.....
Why should anybody give your dad a special dispensation for being old. 70 year olds are racing F16 competitively in Asia.......
It's like amputees wanting to race track at the Olympics....somday the tech will get faster than real people so why bother because they HAVE to lose to race........it seems you want to define a wing that is not trapped off as a hiking rack....

and for sure, if your dad can't trap, he sure can't hyke as it is WAY harder work.

let it go and find a more realistic fight.

LOL!

I know this is controversial, makes for the best debate. I don't take any internet conversation personally.


But the reasons for why I am asking this aside-

Explain how a hiking rack that has the users feet on the rail is an advantage over a trap?

Same idea as a trapseat from what I can see. Or maybe just call it that. Crew on trap but feet on the hull and skipper in the trapseat.

I understand the intent is for disabled sailors.

As I understand this the rules impact the fact that the boat is equiped with wings. If your Dad chooses not to use the wings to hike out further, that's his call. But he will still be rated for having them on the boat.

Wings would allow a leverage advantage. Therefore the adjustment.

Now there is a reasonable argument. Thank you. But it is not a leverage advantage vs. a second trap.

The H16 trapseat actually rates higher than stock, but the helmsman is supposed to stay in one seat for the race.

It also seems reasonable that he could get this adjustment waved in a local regatta.

We once allowed a guy to use his dog as crew in order to make minimum weight. We were not really worried about any boat that had a dog on board. And it was too cool to cross paths on the course and yell "Starboard!"
The dog would start barking at us. So even if we were on Port; we yelled. I'm not suggesting your Dad start barking though.

That's easy. With my feet under a strap and my bum canterleavered against the wing edge I can heave my weight around the boat at will, manhandling the weight distribution in a way I never could on a trap and also there is way less chance for misfortune in "falling" forward on the wire. On a rough day with chop and waves this would be a huge advantage.

LOL!

That's priceless. Don't give him any ideas. And we are only interested in local open class regattas, just to have fun. So regardless of the rating decision, I plan to build some. Stamina for a 5+ race weekend regatta is also the issue.


Now- would a G-Cat have to correct the rating for having double traps? No idea if they came with two from the factory. Hell, ours had none.

Another good point.

Damnit,

I race in your area, and trust me, it will be no problem to add the racks without additional handicap. The PRO of the race has authority to apply the handicap as fits and we'll all be just fine with it....as long as we don't see either of you trapping out from the tip of the racks!

No problem there. I haven't trapped in a looong time- so I will be working on just not falling off the hull. Thanks.

This thread reminds me of a guy who raced with us a few years back with a Tornado. It was an old one with originaly one trap. He put on a second trap wire and had to take the hit for it (not much) although they never used it in the race and then complained about taking the hit. I explained it like this: If you rob a liquor and have a gun with you but never use the gun, you still get charged with armed robbery.
Put the wings on and have a good time sailing. Until you start winning, nobody will protest.

Lee

That's the plan, Lee. Don't think we are a real threat unless there is no wind...