Still suffering from the shock that you bought a HP cat and did that to it !!! can't believe you are even showing the pictures to us , I think that vector marine went a step beyond duty in even responding to your claims after seeing photos .

its roto moulded for you only way to go .

Its sacralidge to do what you have done to a hp cat ,

Guess in your defence they probably shouldn't have sold you it , but perhaps they didn't fully appreciate the abuse you were going to give it .

Should be there with you with the Mystere 4.3 by the time the season starts again till I can get financing for the Blade.

Doug

Well Gang, I agree that I should have been more careful with the hulls. Cat Trax are a bit of a hassle especially if the shore drops off quickly and the wind is blowing. Between the $500 Cat Trax and the $100 cradles I always worry about someone taking them while I'm out on the water. I bought 5 ten foot pieces of 2 inch PVC and 6 elbows and 6 T's. This will make 3 rectangular sliders, one 2' X 10' and two 4' X 2' . The T's are to have on opposite corners so that the frames fill with water and don't float away.

I know it's hard to believe that I wasn't crashing up onto the shore, I always got off and walked it up. I thought it was Kevlar and that something was wrong with the Kevlar. It wasn't until 2 or 3 weeks ago that I found that it was a super light fiberglass construction. I don't think I said, "give me one tough hull and one fragile hull". I started patching last fall with Marine Tex but when I air checked, the patch was still leaking air. I was having trouble getting the F16 to sail the way I thought it should, H16s where shaming me. I've never bought a new car, believe me when those dings started showing up I felt bad, kind of like being kicked in the gut. I just couldn't figure it out, why is this hull cracking, I thought it was suppose to dent. I thought it was Kevlar, I was afraid to sand on it, I had read or been told not to sand Kevlar, I thought I was going to have to have someone else fix it. I don't know if there is anyone in the state experienced fixing Kevlar.

By the time I stopped sailing it this spring I had gotten a pretty good handle on making the boat go, loving those broad reaches with spin. I hadn't gotten everything figured out but the de-powering controls made it so I could sustain and sail pretty fast in strong winds and still be stable (I'm 145 pounds). I was getting so I could set the spin in white caps and at the other side of the lake snuff it with out taking a bath. I had a lot of fun sailing it this spring, especially the four days with Andrew and Elizabeth and their Taipan 4.9 at Heron Lake. The water was in the forties, I think. Andrew grew up sailing Lake Michigan so water temp was nothing to him.

Will,

I've never had a problem leaving my CatTrax ... I do put my sail number on them for identification purposes.

I think I'd prefer to CatTrax than the PVC sliders...since those will only be 2" diameter it still leaves room for the boat (while at an angle) to slide on the ramp and damage the gelcoat.

I'd recommend getting an 18" screw anchor (Ace Hardware around here have them ... longer ones at Lowes and Home Depot). Put on a diving mask and auger it offshore a bit ... tie a buoy (milk carton can work) ... and submerge it about a foot below the surface if you think someone might disturb it....then you can secure your boat off to this while you retrieve your wheels. I know the guys in Jacksonville even raise/lower their sails while moored depending on wind direction.

If indeed one hull takes the "usage" alot better then the other then that is cause for some investigation. At least that is what I think. The two hulls may indeed be expected to handle the same "usage". But like the others I too feel that at least a portion of the damage is due to improper handling. But that doesn't explain away the claimed difference between the two hulls.

Will, it there any potential for using some small timber ramp or something at your sailing location. Possible covered with a layer of carpet ?

Is the lake shore totally "wild", or do you guys have some "club" facilities ?

Otherwise a small anchored bouy will do the trick for you, even in very strong winds. The same setup was used at the resort Wildwind in Greece were over the years I've been several weeks in total. Each afternoon the wind were 15+ knots with often gusts to 25+ knots. They too had a rocky beach. The procedure was to sail the boat up the bouy and hook the line to the bridle strop or the spi pole just underneath it. The boat would then weathervane and you can take your sails down. Then you go back to sure and pick up your cattrax (that were chained to your trailer to prevent being stolen), You place the cat tracks under the boat and unhook the boat before walking her in. Possible lay some foam blocks or wooden planck on shore where you park the boat before taken the mast down or put the boat on the trailer before taking the mast down (don't forget to tie the boat down first). The is the way many sailors do it.

By the way this resort used mostly glassfibre boats like the Tiger, Fox and FX-one and these do indeed handle abuse very similary to the F16, "not very well" that is. The procedure seemed to work for them very well and I found it easy enough too.

Nearly all travelling F18 sailors have procedure very similar to that with the exception of the small bouy as that is the crews job then.

Wouter

Almost a classic case of how most people misunderstand the concept of Kevlar and Carbon. In actual fact Kevlar is worse than glass for load impact on the outside of the hull. Farrier for one will not allow Kevlar on the outer skin. Equally Carbon is terrible in an impact situation, yes it maybe terrifically good at bending loads but once it reaches its limit it simply breaks.

Kevlar is great for wear abrasion, just try and cut it in its cloth state without having been set with epoxy, its very difficult, put Eopxy in and set the cloth and you can cut it relatively easy, try sanding ( abrading ) it though and it becomes the repairers nightmare, the very reason Stealth will not use Kevlar on the outer skins.

For me Kevlar is not the remedy of damaged hulls from beach landings, no matter what you put on that bottom of the hull, it will get shredded by those even harder and sharper rocks etc that beaches are made of. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

You mean there are cat sailors out there who scout around for beach rollers to steal while someone's out sailing? It would never have occurred to me to lock them up when I'm sailing.

I'm stunned!

Well I leave unchained and they have always been there when I returned.

Although at the Global Challenge I had to look under many visiting F16 to find them ! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Wouter

There's a lot of good ideas there. We have no club location where I sail. Another problem is that with one exception the water levels are not constant, over a season they can drop 20 or 30 feet. Some times they are low to begin with and don't recuperate for a year or three. Not only does that make for difficulty landing it makes it difficult to remember and forecast the depth of the water in places where you know there is a sand bar but you don't know how deep. At the lake which has a constant level, or is suppose to, it is operated and controlled by The Army Core of Engineers so they aren't likely to allow privet moorings. They have all the boat traffic channeled into a narrow area. (There is another landing where there is a dock, but the drop off is really steep, but that's an idea). On the H16 I can drop the main and sail in on the jib, maybe I could learn to drop the main on the F16 and paddle in except for when the wind is strong and off shore....

Still, if I can strengthen that one hull I'd be okay with the sliders. I can pick up the bow and carry it up to the point where there is sliders under each end.

I think I have to cut off that outer layer of gel coat anyway as it is so brittle and not well stuck. I've pealed off 1 inch squares of gel with a razor blade type gasket scraper. Then there are places where it is really well bonded, maybe even chemically bonded. If I can cut down through that, then lay a piece of that thin 0.020 inch fiber glass the length of the boat and maybe up to the chine on the sides I think it would be strong. I don't know how much weight that would add. Remember, I can add 5 or 7 pounds just to make the hulls equal.

Now that I think of it, maybe I'd find the beach wheels easier to use if I didn't have the cradles on it. Hard enough just to get the contraption under the hulls and tied on somewhere. I still have the problem of rigging the main when it is blowing strong enough to make white caps. I have a twelve to one external down haul and that takes a lot of time and hassle. I saw a picture where a Lady (maybe in Florida) had a long shackle in the down haul hole in the foot of the main, that made me think I might not have to re-thread the whole mess each time. I think rigging the main has contributed to the hull abuse.

Don't take the cradles off the beach wheels, the bar can do damage to the hulls if you bounce the boat on it like when rolling over a rock. That's why there are cradles, to spread out the loads. Maybe you can add a hook or something to the top of the downhaul settup so you can rig it quicker?

An idea, if you must ground your boat, is to add a stainless or aluminium strip to the bottom for a significant length.

Put simple stick markers in where the big rocks are.

Tie rope to ends and tie them around shrouds. That is what we do.

Doug

Yes it's a bit more hassle to launch but once on the water there is no comparing an F16 with the plastic resort boats. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Doug, Does this mean that you are moving to New Mexico?

Should be there with you with the Mystere 4.3 by the time the season starts again till I can get financing for the Blade.

Doug [/quote]

Will

Will:

No going to Jacksonville <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The Rudder Cluc and Fleet 111.

Doug

the moorings thing gave me some new thoughts about when I single hand at a regatta. Maybe go out a little early and put a mushroom anchor with a float up top, and that way I can get the boat out on the water then tie it and put the trax up, Think a small mushroom like anchor will hold?
The other thought might be to tie the cat traxs to the mooring, they should float.

I like that! As long as they don't float away! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

For a regular mooring, I think chain is best. It won't damage other boats and it will silt in, giving great holding power. Just put a "bobber" on it when not using it so you can find it.

You can always use the Redneck anchor (a cinder block), which might hold a bit better than a 10 pound mushroom, and that way if somebody steals it...so what?

I had a bass fisherman steal the mushroom anchor off my home made practice mark when I was taking a break on the beach! He didn't take the mark, just the anchor! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

You can stub your toe on a cinder block. The chain will quickly disappear below the sand.

That's why I wear booties when I sail! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />