(quote)Maybe we have to get over our selves and find places to race that provide the best viewing from shore and not the best racing for us.(quote)

This is a great thought but may be difficult to achieve unless done as a once or twice a year, advertised, event, because we the participants (with all best intentions) will soon tire of the close quarter racing away from the "good" water and not get over ourselves. Exciting viewing as big boats in close quarters will see crowded roundings and close finishes.

I feel from the viewing aspect, as already stated, the F12 (or some similar small cat) is the best bet. You have to be a boater to have experienced the regatta from the water, away from shore and this is a very limited audience, and how many see that as an interest, probably more of an nuisance. Small boats within breakwaters or close to shore, on a repeated basis, that's exposure.

ncik
3 and 4 have been discussed in this forum ad nauseum. You're "prey" is hooked at that point, talking to you, the ball's in your court and it's up to you to finish the deal.

1 and 2 are more difficult. A small cat close to shoreline is the best tool. People who are already milling about the water are the easiest prey. Pulling people out of their living rooms to seek out cats, because they saw it on TV? Don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. Is someone going to plunk down the dollars to put a full page F12 ad in, for instance, Outside magazine? Not even Hobie is doing it. So this all boils down to a grass roots level...again. The potential audience/sailor are those at the water.

We can take any primitive access on any shore and go from there. How simple? Like rolling up to a skate park? Pop the boat off your car top and in 5 minutes junior's on the water. That's dispelling current perceptions of sailing...old men and blazers.

Very true. I used to get lots of people milling around my jeep when I would unload my sunfish from atop the rollbar.

Mostly the Kayakers that would launch from the same beach. Perhaps we need to start offering those ooglers boat rides? I never have, but I suppose I could.

In my previous life, as a monhull racer, I never seriously considered a cat until a neighbor took me for a ride on his Hobie 20 in good wind. After an hour of double trap reaching, I was hooked! Speed is addictive. That is the only advantage cats offer over mono's. Mono's have better organizations, (fancy yacht clubs) better kid's programs, better (drier) cuddy cabins, etc. You have to want to go fast to enjoy a cat, especially a beach cat, and not be afraid to get wet.

That does not suit many of the mono sailors, you will not convert everyone, no matter what you do, there are people who are affraid of getting wet and like to sit at the yacht club and talk about sailing, rather than actually doing it.

Draw attention away from the water? Set up a cat in the parking lot
back in the New York groove

I am interested in solutions.

Add "higher cost and difficulty to obtain access to the shore due to population growth and to the disproportionately high cost of anything near the shore" (or something like that).

With regards to item C. If done right not impossible.
If you have ever seen the 18 foot skiffs media/TV coverage they appear to have resolved this issue?
Checkout http://203.149.66.70/video/f1sail_small.asp"
from http://www.f1sail.com

Yes that's really impressive, though I note that the website is "(C) 2005" and yet there is no race calendar. What actually happened to this?

Do it right? Why put in the effort? That's why we should all embrace yacht clubs. Why reinvent the wheel? Yacht clubs are set up with insurance already.



Precisely! That's why we should be putting our efforts toward rehabbing those old H14's and 16's sitting in people's yards for a couple of hundred bucks rather than coming up with a new class that will inevitably run in the $1000's. Keep sailing cats cheap and accessible.

Honestly the usable 14's are all but gone leaving the Wave as the primary entry level single hander with a rating of 92, and try finding one for less than $2K. Squirting resin in decks of 30 to 40 year old boats is the answer? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> There were a cajillion of them sold in our area and they become more scarce as every season goes by.

Yeah, my old 14 is getting bad. I have added some resin to the deck already and might have to do some more soon. I don't see that being the answer for getting kids sailing, although it did get me into it.

I too sail an old boat that I had to pump resin into. That being said, if I hadn't found a boat such as the one I have, for under a grand, no way would I be able to call myself a sailor today. I may not be a great one, but I do think I've earned my right to call myself one. Old, used boats have their place in this community. When I got my boat I was a beginning freshman in college. I saved all summer before my first semester so I could buy a boat that I had never been on, and knew little about. Granted, I did my fair share of research on them before I got one. I got it and I haven't looked back. But having said that, affordable boats are one of the things that are going to help people get involved. In my opinion, a couple of grand isn't affordable to the majority. It doesn't matter how interested I would have been, no way would my folks have spent their money to buy me a sailboat,, transport me to sailing locations, and buy gear. But I more or less live inland, it would have sounded crazy to them. If I would have had to sit around and dream of a boat that was 3-4 grand until it was in my reach, I would have likely found something else to do. Without the boat, it's kind of like saying, "you can play with the team during practice, but forget about the game". And don't take that too literally, I know a lot of people crew for those that own boats while they may not. But having your own boat, reguardless of how old, beat up, and cheap it was is an accomplishment in itself. I guess I'm just kind of ranting now, but I'm more or less agreeign with Gree and Soulcat's comments that used boats do get people into it. At least for a start. I will have a better 16 someday or maybe one of the newer classes, but without my old refurbished 16 I wouldn't be typing this now. (and keep in mind that a sailing trip for me is trailering my boat 1-2 hours one way, plus set up, then de-rigging, and trailering back 1-2 hours)(there is a lot of commitment in sailing, and for the most part those outside the box think we are crazy).

But having had my little rant, I do agree that fixing up old boats isn't the ultimate answer for increasing cat popularity. But it certainly helps.

Sure theyre $2-3000 to set up a junior starter boat now but if we dont do that what will people be buying second hand in 20 years, 60 yr old cats and we also need the current old boats to hit the water. Maybe when a kid sees the F12 on the beach and remembers grandpas H14 he will go get it and flog the kids on the F12 then the kids on the F12 will want a 14 and so on. Youve created a feeder market and a second hand boat market.
regards

You just contradicted yourself and strengthened exactly what I said. How many of us started out by sailing some old POS that we bought for cheap? Probably most. I say, go get these ratty old hunks of junk, rehab them, make them safe, and flood the market. Some dealer would sponsor such a program with cheap parts I'm sure. Work as a fleet and offer free fleet membership as sort of a hand holding service. That would boost the popularity of cat sailing. A bunch of cheap, fun, fast boats.

He just acknowledged the fact that things change.

I started in an Optimist, but want my kids to start in a cat. Not a used old cat with cronic maintenance problems and ugly in their eyes (used to better looking cats). I want a cat that makes them feel great while giving me no trouble, worries or hard work.

A cheap used H14 certainly was a great startup boat for a long time, but both the market and the kids are different now.

All the feeder boats aren't gone yet but boats in the 10 to 20 year old range sure are scarce. Thanks for putting it so susinctly Jeff. Heavy on the "if we don't then what?"

.
What does "Yacht clubs are set up with insurance already", have to do with Item C (Difficult media coverage)? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
What does "...embrace...reinvent the wheel" have to do with the subject listed as Item C (Difficult media coverage) ? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />


Item C is listed as >"C)Difficult media coverage. "<

http://203.149.66.70/video/f1sail_small.asp

I was talking about 5C in TriX's post just prior to my post:



I should have been more specific, and read more thoroughly.

Still, you trying to point out inconsistencies in my post doesn't change the meaning of what I said.

Yacht clubs have the infrastructure for putting on sailing events. Why not embrace them?

This is a great thread. Many good points, and I think one theme is that unity would help us instead of arguing over the small points. It would be great to have a famous sailor and big corporate bucks promoting our sport, but not likely to happen tomarrow. When I think back to when I started sailing, my dad did get me a sunflower (snark mono, 300 bucks, 1978) but I really didn't know how to get into racing and didn't know anyone else sailing. It took 27 more years till I could do what I really wanted to do in 1978 - race cats. I live near a small lake now, and the kids around really are interested in what I'm doing with these boats, so this is my plan. I've got a force 5, hobie 14, lone star 16, and am looking for a hobie 16, and maybe to double each boat for races (any cheap, or donated old boats are welcome). I'm then puting all these boats on the lakeside and for two hours every week, all the neighbor kids are invited (for free) to enter into the "sailing program". We'll clean the boats, set em up, learn drills, race, watch videos on rainy, calm days, etc. Our goal will be to gear up for a "real" regatta every couple of months. I don't know how all this will work out, but I know that if we don't stop to pick up the interested passerbys and give them rides, many will not know how to get into sailing, much less cat sailing, on their own. I'll let you all know how its working out...

Good on ya Catinthehat just enjoy the sailing and ignore the wankers that line up to tell you it cant be done.
regards