I have not yet bought a wet suit, a dry suit, or whatever, and am wondering how warm the water / air need to be for me to feel safe without high tech keep-warm gear.

Since my wife is waiting for warmer weather to return, I will be sailing solo. I can't count on anyone hauling me out of the water. At what temperatures should I start to worry?

Jonathan

Jon,
If it is cold enough for you to be worried about it, it is cold enough that you should not be sailing alone. If you are sailing your own boat solo, you should at least be doing the buddy system and go out with another boat, so you can keep an eye on each other. In fact, that is always a good practice, even in warm weather and warm water -- especially when sailing singlehanded.

I spent several years surfing around San Francisco area with a 3mm/4mm wet suit in 50-54 degree water and similar air temps (but humid and windy). Early hypothermia set in after about an hour. No reason to get out of the water, though. After 4 hours, hands were purple and hard to control; lips felt stiff, making it hard to form words. We were at the limit of our wetsuits. With 5mm wetsuits with hoods, you can go a little colder or longer.

We were IN the water; sailing you should not spend much time IN the water, so the exposure is a little different. With a spray top over your wet suit you should be able to tolerate water temps to the high 40s if air temps are similar for a couple hours. Notice, I said tolerate, not enjoy.

I've never had a dry suit, so can't comment on their limits. But I know guys have surfed in Alaska with them.

I have a shorty wetsuit made by GUL (www.gul.com) and it has a layer of titanium in the body. It works well for temps that I am willing to go into which is nothing to brag about: I stop sailing when it hits the upper 60's fahrenheit. We call that winter in central Florida.

I bought the suit online from Murray's clearance page (I am not affiliated; just passing info). I think it retailed for $159 and I got it for $49.

Look at the "Steamer" suits if you go to gul.com. You can e-mail them for more information. They're very helpful.

One word of warning from experience: It's easy to become too chilled too quickly in temps that you thought would be safe. If you begin to go hypothermic your brain begins to play tricks on you. Sail with a buddy or at least have some communication with someone ashore.

While on another cat sailing forum, I had the displeasure of seeing a similar thread. It ended in absolute tragedy. [color:"red"] Please Read [/color] the series of posts contained in the attached document and don't let it happen to you.

well, that really put a damper on my night.

I think I'll go have a scotch and hit the sack now :-/

I guess there's a few things to be said about this guys sanity. At least he had a life jacket on

Jon if I remember right you sail on a lake. Its not the North Atlantic Ocean in the winter. You want to look at a dry or a gortex type suit. That way you can layer underneath using poylpropelyene underwear and fleece. Neoprene booties,glove and hat. There's the neoprene face masks. Just the way you would for any extended time out in the cold.

Remember shivering means you body is chilling and its trying to warm it self. That means take a break or put on more clothes.

Mike

the stupid tax can get costly. it's cheaper to have the right gear, even on a lake. i sailed last winter in the harbor with just gortex and fleece and booties, i think this winter i will get full body wet suit. you can never be to safe. this is a dangerous sport, thats what makes it so exciting. also, i never leave the beach without a submersible vhf radio. dont trust a cell phone. those things are just for yapping while driving a s.u.v!

Yeah...I remember that more than a few of us responded to his posts here on catsailor (he posted mostly on the beachcats site). Most replied with caution. It's a terrible tragedy but a good reminder for the beginning of the cold sailing season.

Jonathan,

I sailed my 18SX in CSC's Lake Jordan Winter series last December, February and March. I was warm enough (not necessarily comfortable) in a full-length, three mil wetsuit, neoprene boots, sailing gloves and a windproof layer on top. In January, I took my tour of duty on the RC boat so that I could bundle up. In March, we turtled the boat and were over for a while (my crew and I were more than 40lbs underweight, so we had to wait for the committee boat to pull us up, which came after it righted the lightning that flipped on top of us). We weren't too cold after that, and finished out the afternoon's races, but it was the end of March when this happened.

As I said, the clothes we wore kept us warm enough, but not necessarily comfortable. Also, and more importantly, I was not solo on the boat and there was always a committee boat and other sailboat nearby to help if we got in trouble. So, as others have said, if you are going to sail around here this winter, make sure there are other people around. Hopefully I'll be out there some for the Winter Series (if I ever find out when it is).

60 degrees is about my limit for comfort using my usual jeans, sweater and windbreaker. less than that i wear long johns and start layering under a nylon shell parka, maybe my bib overalls, and a toboggan cap. anythung under 50 is cold here in lowcountry s.c. i sail more conservatively in the winter and DONT CAPSIZE.

Thanks, Gary - a very sobering post.

Jonathan

Hi Mary,

I think I sometimes worry too easily, so let me try to be more specific ;->

The water temperature on the lake where I sail is currently 58.64 degrees ten feet below the surface. On warm days, it's in the 60s. Are these temperatures I should worry about if I'm sailing without a wet suit?

Some web pages indicate this can be a problem, eg:
http://www.downshore.com/cgi-local/shop.pl/page=Hypothermia.htm

which says: In water temperature of 60 degrees Fahrenheit and below, depending on how much body fat a person has, they could die from hypothermia in as little as 3 hours time, in the water.

Hmmmmm....does that mean if I'm in a lake of limited size, rangers are patroling, and the water is 60 degrees, that I'm in relatively safe territory? Or perhaps that I'm relatively safe as long as I'm with someone else who is on a separate boat?

Or should I really worry when the water temperature is around 60 degrees?

Jonathan

Can you tell me more about a submersible vhf radio? If I had one, and I turned it on, who would answer? (I'm really new to this sport!)

Jonathan

[color:"pink"]>The water temperature on the lake where I sail is
>currently 58.64 degrees ten feet below the surface.

>Are these temperatures I should worry about if I'm
>sailing without a wet suit?[/color]

The quick answer, Yes

The long answer, It depends.

This is the topic of much discussion among open water paddlers. Much has been written about it due to the fact that extended emersion in cold water is the number one cause of death in for sea kayakers.

If I were sailing with crew on a protected bay with lots of other boat traffic, winds in the 5-7 knot range, air temps in the 70's to 80's with abundant sunshine, I might decide to forgo the wetsuit for the outing. Last Sunday, however, the air temps in Vermont peaked at 30 degrees, there wasn't a boat on the water (Lake Champlain), and I was sailing single handed. The water temp was in the low 50's. Winds were light and variable, yet I wore a full-length drysuit and knee-high neoprene boots.

There are no hard and fast cutoff points when it comes to dressing for the borderline conditions you describe. My advice, however, would be to dress for the water temperature (not the air). If in doubt, put on what you might consider appropriate for the day and go jump in. Swim around for a while. If you're not comfortable in the water, you'd better re-think your insulation. The other factor is the risk of extended emersion. The greater the risk, the better prepared you should be.

BTW, we're white now in Vermont and the boat was put away until Spring following Sunday's outing. For the next several months I will read with envy the posts of those who sail through winter.

about the submersable radio- with you sailing on a lake radio traffic would be less. still i believe if there is a public landing there on lake jordan, wildlife officers or the city park people monitor channels. check where you launch from and what channel they are on. channel 16 is the usual calling channel. tell these people your sailing plan and when you schedule yourself to return. i went thru three radios before i found one that didnt leak and corrode. the raytheon radio in my opinion performs the best and goes for around $200. take along a cell phone in a very water proof container for a back up also.
you should just assume that you will capsize. dont go out without a method to right the boat. practice the method near shore. when you capsize you need to be able to right her without calling for help. what i do is strap a 2x6x5' under the tramp with about 25' of 1/2" rope. when i am over i untie it at the forward cross bar. dont tie it up at the aft cross bar, the boat will pitch aft into the cold cold water when you go to untie it! on my boat (h17) there is a perfect place to plant the base of the 2x6 at the fore cross bar, you may have to tie the base of the 2x6 to the fore cross bar or pylon or what ever there is. throw the rope over the upper hull to support the other end. this gives me enough leverage to right her as i ease out to the end of the 2x6. there is a product on the market that goes for 1 or 2 hundred $. easy righter or something. a 2x6 at lowe's goes for 5.50

There is NO government entity that patrols lake jordan. I have NEVER ever seen a wildlife officer or otherwise on the water there, and I am told, that the reason is because the office doesn't exist. The Corps. of Engineers own the Lake, so I'm guessing that its up to them to patrol it.

Using a VHF on Jordan would be useless honestly, especially this time of year. The lake is a ghost town unless its about 65 degrees. During the summer you might find some budweiser-powered rednecks monitoring some channel, but I don't know if you'd want them coming to your aid, they might cause more pain than anything else.

Yes, I guess that's the common sense approach - if I want to keep on sailing, do it with the Winter Series folks, who know what they are doing.

One question - the only catamaran fleet in the Carolina Sailing Club is the Isotope fleet. How friendly are they to beginning P-16 sailors?

Jonathan

you guys need to come on down and we'll spend a weekend on Lake Jocassee or Keowee (Jocassee is better but the water is colder). Plenty of great camping spots. Wetsuits, spray suits, fall / winter wind, and a boatless lake - yeehaaa!

Jake

If the water is below 70 degrees, I would definitely advise getting a wetsuit. The only decision then is, full or shorty and how thick.

Whatever you do, don't wear clothing that absorbs water--jeans, sweaters (cotton), tee-shirts. When wet, they become cold, heavy sponges.

In water temps in the high 50s with air temps in the low 60s (NC this time of year), you should be able to COMFORTABLY sail with a full wetsuit of 3mm thickness on the legs/arms and 4mm for the body.

Again, my opinion is that any water temps below 70 degrees deserve a wetsuit. Even with warm air temps...

Enjoy extending your sailing season!