Still not sure if we will make the investment in another cat- The leadsled 24 could be back in the water and racing fairly easily.

But if we do, I want to be competitive in DPN open racing and reduce the athletic ability needed at the helm position.

So- thanks to the local cat sailors a P18 is a good possibility.

The plan-
1. Like the simple sail controls- not as tune-able but I need to keep my head out of the boat for both safety and tactical reasons.

2. Install front tramp. I have been spoiled by the G-Cat.

3. Wings so skipper can hike/sit.

4. Hooter setup for off the wind as the P18 is a good reaching boat but not so good upwind. And maybe upwind in light air (normal state of affairs on Lake Murkey)

5. Squaretop- but this would probably be a long ways off.

P18 DPN = 74.8
wings modifier 0.995
Spin modifier 0.960

After mods= 71.45.

And I will check to make sure the mast is sealed properly this time...

So what do you guys think? Our total crew weight is around 390lbs.

"light air (normal state of affairs on Lake Murkey)"

"Wings so skipper can hike/sit"

these 2 don't add up, if you have got light winds, the last thing that you want is a hunk of scaffold on board that just gives you a worse rating and makes you go slower.
I have never been a fan of wings.

Paul

Thanks for the input. There are other reasons for the wings.

The RC may hit your rating for the forward tramp as well. Depends on the RC.

Interesting. Never considered it as a performance enhancement- just a comfort one...

I would think it would be more of a hinderance as far as performance is concerned.

Hi Guys,

Back in the late 80s/early 90s there was a good active fleet of Prindles in OC Maryland that I would good and play with on my H-18mag. I could STOMP all over the P-18 anytime no problem. They (Performance) made a set of 'wings' for the P-19 but I never saw a set except at a boatshow and never on a 'old' P-18. So if you are looking for a "numbers" beater with wings, and sail at 400lbs crew wieght I would personally find a H-21SE model. It has wings, its Portsmith Handicap is underrated, you can use "aftermarket" sails legally (open sail suppliers because of "ProSailing" circut). It is my feeling that the boat was never fully developed because of the collapse of the ProSailing Circut in the late 80s/early 90s. I do have a P-19mx w/spin and find it very difficult to sail it to its portsmouth handicap number, I'm just not as good as Smythe, Glasers, and the other gods/sailmakers of our sport who used to sail the boat and set the current handicap numbers where there are; still an Excellent boat to sail though. And I still have, currently race and dearly love my H-18mag, that would be my second choice.

Please note that I'm NOT a great fan of Hobie Corp and have had my issues with them over quality (my H-18 carries "84'RED FOAM serial numbers on 87'/88' replacement hulls that took me 2 years to get at the time) and most recently they screwwed Dan Flannigan when the port bow of his one /two year old H-16 sheared away at the front corner post while racing at Wildwood NJ. He was a mile off-shore with his 12 year old son on board when this happened, they dragged the pieces/debris through the surf with a jet ski. It was/is obvious that the failure was because if NON WETTING of the surfaces when the hull was assembled. The mast is now bent, the sails are toast and all "Hobie" would do after a year of wrangling is give him one new hull.

So check CAREFULLY any Hobie you buy, though the H-21 seemed to be built like a tank and I never heard of any problems other then ice freezing in the wing mounts and cracking them same as on the H-17. Unless you are good at repairs stear clear off a "red foam" H-18. They are very lite but very fragile and take a gentle hand

if we do wings, it will be custom (read: homemade mounts and not so pretty). The biggest single requirement is low price. Sure, a Hobie 21 would be awesome- but I have never seen one for sale in our area. And I doubt it would be in the price range of old Prindles. Our G-Cat was $800 with a bent mast. So you get an idea of our budget. We have lots of old hardware from years of racing all kinds of boats. Only one was new- an H16 that was a factory second due to being overweight.

Lastly,
We just want to have fun racing DPN locally, maybe hit the Mug Race.

Hi Jim,

I get the budget constraints, that is why I have a 84' H-18mag and a 86' P-19mz. Some of the prices they want are just out of line for new boats, I can buy an new 18'CC outboard with trailer for less then a new beach cat!!!! But still I 've seen/heard of H-21s going for 1500.00$ or even " please just get the thing out of my yard" prices. Of course most of those boats reguire some work and new sails usually. Look around you maybe surprised what is laying around in someone's barn/yard. I know there where a couple of boats sitting at Sandy Hook NJ dissassembled in their storage yard last year. Maybe they are still there??? Whats it hurt to ask???

Good luck
Harry

I get you, but NJ is out of range for us to be able to pick up. Still looking!

If the boat was only one or two years old, it sure would make sense to have it insured...

Not a lawyer, but I think we need a little spin control here, Murph.

How is it the manufacturer's fault that the mast and sails got trashed? "They" dragged it through the surf with a jet ski? No, Hobie Cat wasn't at this event. That would be the host fleet doing the owner a favor and salvaging what is left of the boat. A marine lawyer would have a field day with this (the fleet may be 50% owners of the boat now).

If the sails were trashed, that would be the owner's fault for not securing them properly for a return to shore. Trust me, I've dropped enough masts to know that the sails are fine until the operator does something negligent. Granted, if I had a 12-year old on board in those conditions, I wouldn't have cared about the sails at that point either, but to say it's the manufacturer's fault isn't accurate.

Insurance probably would have handled this either way, but we shouldn't be blaming Hobie Cat for anything other than what was their fault. Of course, it shouldn't have taken a year to work that out either.

Mike

There was a fellow that used to be active here - Dan Berger. He had his own version of a beach cat graveyard at his house - hulls, masts, crossbeams, you name it. For a variety of boats as well. I boat a Hobie-18 platform from him after mine got t-boned and a I couldn't find a suitable single hull. Very good price and great person to visit. Anybody heard from him lately?

From all this, I would find it hard to recommend anything other than a used Hobie-18 magnum, or SX if you can get a deal.

No, the insurance didn't cover it all , they kicked back to Danny as a manufacturing defect after a marine inspector examined the remains.

Have you any exerience in "failure analysis" as engineers conduct it NOT lawyers??? You have to follow the Chain of Events - what caused what to happen??? Take a look at the Cedar Rapids airplane crash several years ago. What was the actual cause of the chain of events that led to the deaths of those passengers? The jet engine's turbine exploding, cutting the hydraulic control lines, making the plane uncontrollable, resulting in it crashing upon attempting to land. Or do you believe it was pilot error for landing too hard on the ground???

I was there, I placed the blame were it belongs. Not to jump too hard on you, but how would you do when your boat goes BANG... and is gone, leaving one hull floating, everything else is under water ... out in the ATLANTIC OCEAN???? just your young son and you, and wreckage.

Harry

ps: I've been a boater/water rat my whole life and started with a H-16 Sail #572 and have had my H-18 since 1984. And you???

Hey Harry,

This really isn't about your experience or mine. And, lawyers will always find a way to minimize damages, especially insurance companies.

But, the sport isn't without risk. I too was at the regatta in question, and helped pull in the remains of Dan's boat. Why wasn't I on the water? I thought the conditions were more than I wanted to deal with. Like I said, if I were out there with a 12-year old, I wouldn't have cared what happened to the boat at that point.

Sometimes, we have to accept that our choices might lead to consequences and be willing to accept that.

Mike