The times is fast approaching when a shipment of new Hobie 14s will be coming to the states. We may have as many as 10-15 new Hobie 14s coming and we would like to get the number up to 25 or more. The more we order the less the boats will cost for each person ordering. So, email me at cart@sail-s.com to make your order. If you are in an area with a Hobie dealer, we will need to work the details out with each dealer.

Approx how much and how are they equipped??

Bob C

Bob, I e-mailed and asked him questions, and here are his answers:

Price Estimates are at this time: But may be less and if we get constant
orders of H14's and whether we get them from Europe or Brazil.
1-3 Boats $5,780
4-8 Boats $5,345
9-15 Boats $5,159
16-24 Boats $4,972
25+ Boats $4,848

Europe is the place Doug indicated I can get them. But I am looking into
Brazil as I may be able to get them even for less due to the exchange rate.

I was thinking having the boats shipped late Feb and Here by May 2003.

We want to use as many as possible for our own youth program, the more the marrier. We are thinking 4 minimum 8 max for our program. We are going to add turbo kits to half the boats.

25 per container is the max, but sounds like they will ship more. I am getting
great interest in people ordering the H14's and am posting on the forum just
to see who might be interested.
I am going to finalize the orders with Doug Skidmore and will get back with
you. Plus I am trying to convince Doug to let me contact Hobie Brazil as I
am sure I could get the boats much less through them. Doug indicated some
issue of getting the boats from Brazil shipping and getting containers from
them. I guess he feels it would be easier to get the H14's from Europe
because they already have containers coming from Europe. But of course I
will want to check out all the options to get the boats at the best price
possible. I think Hobie Brazil would welcome the business.

Miles Moore
SAIL/CART
www.sail-s.com

Mary-

I saw a Hobie 14 Turbo on Ebay for $475 today. I don't remember if thats the current bid or buy it price.

thom

Hey, I am not promoting the idea of people buying new Hobie 14's. I was just curious myself. The guy had said that Dragoons were too expensive for youth boats, and yet the prices he is talking about for new imported Hobie 14's are higher than the Dragoon price that was given to me by Hobie Cat Company.

There have to be lots of old Hobie 14's around -- for people who really want a Hobie 14, it is just a matter of finding them.

If these boats are indeed for a youth sailing program, I find it EXTREMELY strange that the kids would be making the decision about what boat they want. The fact that adults would just say, "Okay," is very disturbing to me. The Hobie 14 is a fun boat, but you don't buy kids a bunch of expensive new boats just so they can have fun. The 14 is not exactly going to lead kids down the path to the Olympics -- or even to weekend regattas. It would be a step backward for youth sailing in the United States, in my humble opinion.

And, personally, I have always wanted a Hobie 14, but not enough to pay for a new one.

Hello, I am Mindy and I am 10 yrs. old. Like my dad, I do not think a spinnaker is important. I also do not think winning and losing is important. As long as I get to race, I am satisfied. Like most kids, if I were to race I would want the Hobie 14. In fact, I am going to race and #14 is the one I want. Some reasons I want it is because of how fun it is to sail. I also like it because of how freely and lively it sails. For another reason it has a reasonable sized jib and sail area. It is also just like a Hobie 16 only smaller, and the Hobie 16 is one of my favorite cats. I don't understand why Mary is disturbed that kids are choosing their own boats if they are going to be the ones sailing it anyways. Shouldn't they be able to?

I think we should start a kids forum so kids have a place to talk about sailing.

I also asked my little brother, who is 4 yrs. old, what he wanted to be when he grew up. He replied ''I want to be a sailor, because I like being a sailer.'' [color:"blue"] [/color] [color:"blue"] [/color]

The Dragoon price is officially $5,895.00, so a new H14 is less than a Dragoon (at the un-official price I gave Mary). And yes there are lots of used H14's around and we were just given another H14 that is in real good shape, so we will be using new and used H14's. Once again the prices I gave, which to tell you the truth Mary I did not want you posting on the forum until I finalized the prices (should of told you this) may go down further once and if I get to speak with Hobie Brazil. So don't think that the prices are finalized yet. Also, there are some adults and kids who want new H14's regardless of the price. We also may have a grant available soon for our club and so will be able to get new H14's with this grant, remember this is a club choice.

What is strange about kids deciding what boat they want? They had the opportunity to sail the Dragoon and Wave at the fast and fun event, and have sailed several H14's for a while now. They were simply asked what they liked best, and sense there is no official junior age multihull, they chose the H14. I let Mindy my daughter read the post in this thread and let her respond as well, as she felt she wanted to respond.

Also we are not just buying a bunch of expensive boats for the fun of it. We have an active club; they plan to race them, etc, etc. Actually, we do not care at all about the Olympics (highly over rated), as most of the kids will never pursue the Olympics nor Tornado racing, and the likely hood of another multihull getting into the Olympics is highly unlikely, especially now that the Olympic committee is looking at scaling down the number of the events in the Olympics. We are more interested in preparing the kids to sail for life and the enjoyment of sailing, and yes even prepare them for some big races if they want such as the Pan Am Games, World Games (ISAF), & H16 worlds all of which cost much less to prepare for and get into than the Olympics. So in our view the H14 is a step forward. Oh yes I should add that H14's are all over the world like the H16, and still built on 4 continents. Now lets see the Dragoon is built on one continent, no used market for the boat, only in a few boats available in various countries, etc., etc., so I don't see the Dragoon as a stop forward.

I know some are going to say well IT (Dragoon) HAS A SPINNAKER! Well just look around at junior age racing such as with Laser, Laser Radial, and Optimist, Sabot, etc., None of these classes have spinnakers and are going strong! At a recent Sabot regatta, they had over 400 sailors racing. None of our kids or for that matter the adults at our club are interested in Spinnakers, we do have several boats in our area with spinnaker that the kids can experience and most are just not interested. To tell you the truth our club would go with the Wave before ever considering the Dragoon, and now with the new Hobie Bravo, which cost even less than the Wave, and from all reports is even more exciting to sail than the Wave, we may be adding the Bravo to our list. The kids have seen pictures of it and think it would be fun but stated it has no jib so they can not sail together (two on each boat).

So when we looked at a junior boat (youth boat is the H16) we looked at all the advantages, etc. and the H14 to us stood out as the obvious choice. Now you or anyone else have more than a right to disagree with us and maybe we can discuss this issue more on this forum. I will add that I have said it and I will say it again, that ''the most important issues with making a junior sailing program successful in North America is cost and the fun factor.'' Just go to a Laser or Opti event and just watch how much fun the kids have, and with no spinnaker imagine that. What we need to do is put our biases aside (as much as possible), and look past whether a boat has two hulls, if it has a spinnaker, etc. and truly look at what is best for the kids and helping them love to sail, not if they want to go to the Olympics, etc. Don't get me wrong I do believe the Olympics is a worthy cause, its just not a path I think initially we need to even worry about, and is really clouding our vision of what is important to our kids. Seems to me the Olympics and spinnakers are more important to the adults than the kids, and I might add WINNING & LOSING. Heck Mary just look at your own Wave Nationals as an example, are the kids at this event sorry that the boat has no spinnaker, or that the Wave is not a Olympic class or preparation boat?

Now with all I have said I want to add that these are my opinions and are the opinions of most of our club members, but we are not saying by any means that we are absolutely right, so please do not take offense to what I am saying. My post is intended to answer some questions and is friendly conversation, which I hope will develop into some real discussion on this topic. I have to add that at our club we also emphasize total inclusion, which mean we include those with disabilities, and is the reason we make decision a bit different than non-accessible clubs. Yes the H14 can be fitted with old style Trapseats.

Oh yes just to show you we are not all hot air go to our website at http://www.sail-s.com/main/sail/Sailing_Group/Sailing_Group_MAIN.htm

Miles,

Will you be having any of the kids trying out the SoloRight on the Hobie 14s? Please keep me informed of any results.

GARY

Hi, Mindy,
Don't pay any attention to me. I am just an old lady from a different generation and I grew up in a world where adults made decisions and kids were not given a vote. I realize things are different now, but I still can't help thinking it is strange. Perhaps you are fortunate to be growing up in a time when children have so many rights and their opinions are sought by adults.

The Hobie 14 may be the perfect boat for your club. But many people are working on getting junior catamaran sailing programs going around the country, and they are looking at boats that are versatile enough to be used from ages 10-12 up to age 18, as a singlehander or two-person boat, single trapeze or double trapeze, main only, or main and jib, or main, jib and spinnaker, so it will give kids a lot of different options according to their wants, needs, ability levels, etc. Just because a boat has a spinnaker available does not mean you ever have to use it. But there might be some older kids who WOULD like to learn to use spinnakers and would like to learn all the things they would need to know if they start sailing the bigger cats or want to crew for somebody on a bigger cat.

The Hobie 14 is a fun, simple boat, but it will ALWAYS be a fun, simple boat. Some people can be happy with a boat like that their whole lives. But some kids, as they get older, need something that can be souped up a bit so they can keep learning new things and don't get bored with sailing.

I hope this explains my opinions a little better. And please understand that everybody in the catamaran world is happy to know that you have a group of kids at your club who love sailing catamarans of whatever type, and we hope that you will continue sailing all your lives.

Hello Gary and Mary!

Gary yes we will be looking into a solo-right for the H14, and will need to discuss this with you. The H14 will also be set up with Trapseats (the old style) as we will be teaming kids up with those kids with disAbilities, that is one of the things that makes our club different and is one of the reason the other cats on the market don't work for us. We plan to hit the racing seen next summer with boats equipped with and without Trapseats so the solo-right system will be something we will need to get going.

Also, Mary can't the H14 be sailed with or without a jib? Also are kids going to sail the Dragoon until they are 18? Its a small boat and will be difficult to get two big teenagers on. Seems to make perfect sense to go from the H14 (turbo) to the H16 and to hook the kids into the H16 racing seen, and all the great events. I explained my view in my previous post so I wont go through that all again. Well our club may have to go it alone (actually with a few other clubs) but seems you all are heading down the expensive route and with kids that care about issues that none of our kids care about. Our kids just want to do some racing, and have fun. We are probably just not as serious as you all are. We are not in Florida as we live in Idaho and Eastern Washington so that may have something to do with it. So we wish you all the best with your junior and youth efforts, and your selection of a boat.

Actually, a couple of the kids have seen your post etc., which is good for them to see other peoples opinions. They dont still quite understand you but seem to make sense of what you are saying. Of course, now they are also interested in the new Bravo, so it looks like we are heading in very different directions, and heck that is ok. As for our kids having a choice, we are big on choice with a lot of discussion. Having the Fast & Fun program was a big eye opener for us with being able to sail the Dragoon and other cats, but the kids for most want to have fun and race to learn, and then move on to H16 & Trapseat racing, etc. Well I think I am wearing out this topic, so I will leave enough well alone.

Thanks for your comments and please if anyone wants a new H14 please contact me at cart@sail-s.com

How about using Taipan 4.9 or Bimare Javelin 16s for the trainer? Both these boats can be ordered with or without spinnaker, so spinnakers could be added later. Both these boats are lighter than the either of these Hobies being discussed, thus are easier for young crews to handle. Most importantly these boats more closely emulate the latest trend in modern cats and therefore most likely future Olympic catamarans.

We are talking about a trainer for our youth, correct?

Miles Moore, Mary, and Catsailor,

First off, Miles are you the same guy that tried unsuccessfully to bring a container of A-Cats into the USA from Europe, along with Wouter? Just wondering if you are the same guy. I also wonder how this proposed deal will set with USA Hobie dealers.

Mary, I agree with you that a Junior trainer is necessary in the USA. I also agree with Mary that the Hobie 14, while being a great little boat, is not suitable as the youth trainer. This boat would be a step back as a youth trainer, as it is yesterday's tech.

Catsailor1, I am intriqued by the concept of using a Taipan 4.9 or Javelin 16 as a trainer. These boats are lightweight, tough, fast, and responsive. I do have a couple of questions, however. First, are these boats too expensive? Second, are they too powerful for young sailors or are they available with smaller rigs? If so, the larger rigs could be added later for the bigger kids.

This is interesting stuff.

Miles,
Was Mindy serious about having a forum for kids to talk about sailing? If so, Rick will be happy to set one up. I think it would be very interesting to see what current children and teens have to say, as well as those who were sailing during their childhood and teens and are now young adults looking back at what could have been done differently for them.

Getting kids talking to each other could be an important part of the project to get more kids sailing and keep them sailing. Tell Mindy I think that is a great idea.

Not to mention the Mystere 4.3. No commercial interest.

49er,

I can answer the cost question.

I've been looking at the cost of various F16hp boats, including the Taipan 4.9 and Jav 16. New, $9-11K, depending on options. But used Taipain 4.9s are extremely reasonable and could be had for the same price as a new Dragoon--ah, and look what you'd be getting! Even though used Taipans are primarily in Australia, the exchange rate still makes them a real deal even considering shipping.

Mary yes Mindy is vary serious about starting a junior/youth forum. Mindy was disappointed she could not login in as a new forum member due to her age. The message indicated she needs to be 13, so we may want to looks at some way to allow kids to logo on as independents with parental consent.

Also 49er I never tried to get a shipment of A Cats to the US as I have never even sailed an A Cat, even though I sure would like to sail one. And of course as you know I am totally in disagree with the H14 not being a good trainer, this is just not the case. The H14 & H16 already have a great international resource of events and organizations to handle a junior/youth event. As one the boys in our club said the H14 is a lot like the Laser in its sensitivity to balance, etc.

I know the T4.9, etc. are hot boats to some people but there is a lot of issues in getting a junior/youth program going in these boats, or even with the Dragoon. I am just thinking of resource-ing as much as possible. We just cannot forget cost in the big picture. The Sabot class is very successful junior class due in large to cost and its availability. Do we really want to wait 10 years or so to get something going with new boats when there already exist the boats all over the world, and the organization capacity? I am thinking globally.

I think a discussion like this on a junior/youth forum would be interesting but we need to stay out of it and see what they come up with. I am really enjoying this much needed discuss.

Dear Mary,
I know some kids would like to learn how to sail with a spinnaker. I didn't mean all kids didn't want to learn how to sail with a spinnaker. I simply meant that most kids don't care if they have a spinnaker or not on their boat. You sound like a very nice person and I would like to meet you some time. I was wondering why you couldn't put a spinnaker on a Hobie 14? People put spinnakers on Waves. Can't you grow with the #14 and then move to the #16? Isn't the16 racing challenging? I noticed by reading my writing that I might be being rude. If I am, I am very sorry I'm just trying to explain my opinion. Thank you so much for writing to me, it feels good to have someone to talk to even if it's just in one letter. What kind of boat do you like? Mom says she can tell you're a wonderful person by your writing. I like you.

Thank you for writing.
Mindy

Mindy,

It was nice to hear from you. You are a good writer. I have not read a posting this forum from someone your age, previous to yours. Thanks for telling us your thoughts.

I have a good feeling about your father. He is promoting a great form of recreation and exercize for many kinds of able bodied individuals, from children to disAbled adults, to everyone in-between.

Nice to hear from you Mindy.

GARY

Miles,

Just transfer the righting tool that you already have. You will have to shorten the suspension lines a little bit to make it fit on the Hobie 14. One testimonial I recevied was from a Dad who was able to allow his two children to sail without him being on board; the two kids were able to right the Hobiecat by themselves.

As I understand your post, the 14's will be fitted with trapseats. So I guess you are training young disAbled sailors?

Keep up the great work Miles!

GARY

What a great thread! I am a little confused about what everyone is defining a "youth boat". Is it a boat designed to introduce young sailors into sailing, or is it a boat to train young sailors into more advanced sailing and racing? I think these are two VERY different requirements and instead of saying "this boat vs. that boat", let's define the requirements for a youth boat and then look around. It's very likely that there is a single boat that can meet both of these requirements but I believe we are talking about two different things.

[color:"green"] Youth boat for introducing new young sailors (age 8-16): [/color]
A) affordable (so the parents can actually buy one) - what are comparable youth dingy costs?
B) simply rigged
C) reasonably powered
D?) should it be strictly a two up boat? One up? or have the option for both?
E?) Spinnaker? NO WAY! A spinnaker is not for beginners! Two sails is more than enough for this group to focus on.

[color:"green"] "Trainer Boat" for advanced youths (age 13-18): [/color]
A) moderately affordable
B) not quite so simple rigging
C) more powerfull (spinnaker?)
D) two up
E) now let's look at a spinnaker