The best yacht club that would be useful for me would be one where the boat could be sitting on the sand, mast up and yards from the water.

We used to have our own little club where the County of LA rented us beach space for $240/yr....Topanga South Yacht Club. No dues, no meetings but we had t-shirts! (and 50 cats on the beach at one time). Volleyball, weekly BBQ's....

Unfortunately, the beach eroded away leaving rocks and boulders in the landing zone. Sailors moved away or left the sport. I keep my boat in an RV yard close by now. The plus is that I can trailer to new places.

Wish I could find another spot like that but most of the YC's aren't on the sand!

Sheldon
P-18

Is that where all the cats used to be down by the Getty museum? I was wondering about that set-up.
Here in the BAy Area, there seems to be no place to keep a boat with the mast up except at a few marinas. The best I have found was in Alameda, and that was mast up on a trailer and you have to tow your boat to the launching ramp through an office building's parking lot! Either that, or they seem to be fond of the dreaded hoist around here.
I heard there was interest in getting some boats on the beach in Alameda, but I never heard any more about it.
It seems a shame to have all this wind and water and such a small cat scene!

I joined the local yacht club in order to get mast up storage near the water, and guaranteed access to the water. I felt mast up storage and guaranteed access were necessary to be able to fully enjoy cat sailing. It also didn't hurt that the folks I first met at the yacht club were very friendly. They only got uppity when I tried to park my cat on their property & use their docks without paying dues.

I had an option that was cheaper, but a much longer drive to the launch site. And I had a much more expensive option - buying lakefront property.

For me, the yacht club was an affordable compromise. I didn't need the yacht club to race my catamaran and in fact, at first I couldn't even race my catamaran at my own club, except in an annual distance race, but the mast up storage and lake access gave me the "time on the water" to improve. Once I joined the yacht club, though, I did get involved in various programs, including race management, and for a while we did have a catamaran fleet racing regularly.

Yep, right at the bottom of the hill below the Getty (now called the Getty Villa).
We had some fine times down there. Minimal charge by the County and close to the surf line...a bit too close. One year we lost 15 boats to a storm.
We had BBQ's every Wed all summer, with kids and parents abound. The lifeguard had his own boat there so the tower became our personal storage space.

There are still boats there but the heyday is long gone. I don't know if any of them even go out. Long live the "good ole days" which are now!

Sheldon
P-18

We searched most all of the Annapolis / B'more area for a club that could accommodate a bunch of Tornados a few years back. West River Sailing Club and others were plenty interested in a one design fleet coming to roost, but space issues were clearly a problem as were launch facilities for nearly all Annapolis clubs. Severn Sailing Association and Eastport were interested but there was no way you could get sail a Tcat out of there. Most clubs here just aren't set up for launching cats.

On the other hand, Podickory Point Yacht and Beach Club, north of Annapolis, has great facilities and plenty of space. We train out of there when we are not on the road. PPYC would love to have more cats there, so I don't see what the problem is in Annapolis. I will say that most cat sailors are pretty cheap in my experience and are not willing to pay for yacht clubs. It costs around $115.00 per month to be a PPYC member and keep your boat there. That's a fair chunk of change to fork over in one lump sum. On the other hand, you get a place to store your boat, electricity, fresh water, showers, a pretty damn nice clubhouse, pool, tennis courts, etc. Seems pretty reasonable to me. I really appreciate having showers and fresh water available.

We have found Annapolis / Balmer clubs to be extremely cooperative and cat friendly. A few years ago, when the Baltimore Sailing Center at Rocky Point was operating, one of the baltimore clubs gave us open class starts in their races. They were very friendly and quite impressed with the speed of our boats. Eastport Yacht Club co-organized the 1997 Tornado National Championships with CRAC. Their RC expertise was extremely helpful and professional! Eastport has given us starts in their regattas over the years. And anyone who races in the Annapolis area certainly must know of the welcoming attitude of the Cambridge Yacht Club, who include us every year in their annual summer regatta. Miles River Yacht Club used to give us starts and hosted the area C Alter Cup elims twice if I'm not mistaken. For the last two years, cats have been welcome in the Annapolis to Oxford Race.

I don't think it is fair to say that we are not welcome. I think it is true that we have unique space and launching issues. In Annapolis, most clubs were built without considering such needs. This was reasonable at the time the clubs were built. Projects that I have worked on, such as the Tcat nationals, were well received by local clubs. Seems to me that for the most part, local clubs here ARE interested in promoting sailing.

If cat sailors were really interested, they could have a cat club in Annapolis. PPYC could become a cat oriented club just by having lots of cat people join. It's that simple. And there is a club of sorts in Galesville. There ain't no facilities, but there's a bunch of boats on a piece of property there and that's a start ain't it? Didn't most of the existing clubs start out that way?

-Greg Scace

Greg,
You said one of the problems is that catamarans have unique space and launching issues. I am curious as to what these unique space and launching issues are. At the clubs you are talking about, do they have fleets of dinghy-type monohulls up to 20 foot? Do they drysail? How do they launch their boats? Do they use hoists, or ramps, or both?

Where did the mantra come from that catamarans have to have a beach? Never mind, I know where it came from.

Anyway, when the Shark catamaran fleet started at Mentor Harbor Yacht Club on Lake Erie in 1962, most of the people who got the catamarans were monohull sailors who were members of the club. Our club had a large amount of beach area right on the lake, but it never even occurred to us to sail our cats off a beach. We launched our boats just like the monohull sailors did, using a hoist or a ramp. I think most of the Shark fleet sailors used the hoist rather than the ramp. We had a four-way bridle that just attached to the hook on the hoist, and you just lowered the boat into the water. It was so easy. We were always launching into completely calm, protected water. We put up our sails after we got in the water. And then we just had to sail down a little canal and then out through the channel into the lake.

Most of the major Shark regattas were out of yacht clubs on the East Coast, and at most of them we launched by hoist or ramp. And when Tornados came in, in the late 1960's, I think they were doing the same thing.

Now, obviously, in the case of the Hobie regattas in the 1970's when there were maybe a hundred boats at every regatta, a hoist is not feasible. But when you have a fleet the size of a normal monohull fleet at a regatta, why shouldn't you be able to use the hoist (or ramp) or whatever that club provides for launching monohulls?

As far as the dry storage space issue, this came up with a club that we belonged to once. We had a Hobie 18. We found out that they were charging us 50 percent more for dry storage than they were charging for the Flying Scots -- this was with both types of boats on trailers. So I took a tape measure and measured the square footage of the footprints of the two types of boats on trailers. It was identical. After I presented my evidence, they apologized and reduced our dry storage fee.

Just a couple thoughts from the past.

I guess my point before about Annapolis local clubs was more on the big ones and the scratch it takes to join, different from whether they like us and give us a start. Clubs on the Eastern shore or Baltimore are not exactly local to Annapolis, ok maybe Baltimore... Also, beach cats weren't exactly welcome at the Oxford race this year (not Oxford's fault), but it sounds like that has changed for the better for next year.

PPYC would likely get more cats if they lowered the cost and advertised the availability. I'd keep a boat there, but I really don't care about the pool or tennis courts or paying for them. The cost to put my 18 on the beach would be almost what I pay to keep my 25' mono in a deep water slip, which seems silly. I live around the corner from PPYC but I sail with the "club of sorts" in Galesville. (No pool or tennis, who cares, but we have two Tornados! We also have Joe the Bartender!) With Sandy Point next door to PPYC, trailer friendly boats have an option/choice for Bay access, but it's not a club.

Maybe we are just all cheap!

Howdee:

Re space and launching issues - A tornado is 20 feet by 10 feet. They take up a fair amount of real estate compared to a laser, 470 or other small dinghy, but maybe not too much more than a flying snot. Clubs in Annapolis were really short on space for dry storage. Severn Sailing Association had floating ramps for launching dinghies. The launch basin was protected by a seawall and had a relatively small opening out into the mouth of the Severn River. While I personally prefer launching off of ramps, the basin is very small for maneuvering Tornadoes after launching. Eastport Yacht Club has hoists, which I hate. Eastport's main issue was lack of dry storage space.

Another space issue was the problem of inactive members storing boats. West River Sailing club had seen a big decline in racing activity over the years and has inactive fleets. But many of these inactive people are still members who have friends and social life at the yacht club. It is politically difficult to boot them in favor of vibrant, new groups, although the vibrant new groups certainly would bring new life to an old dog.

I know that Tcat sailors at Cabrillo Beach YC use bridles and a crane, and we did so when we sailed the 2000 Nationals there. I found it to be time consuming and difficult. Perhaps I'm just not good at it through lack of practice. I used to not like ramp sailing, but I prefer it to all other launching now since it is so easy to roll boats on asphalt and since there's no sand to get in all the running gear. As far as Eastport went, the cranes were in relatively exposed water. I wasn't too sure how I was gonna keep a Tcat from getting damaged when launching in wind and seas. Perhaps lack of experience on my part.

Hi:

Belonging to a YC costs money. No doubt about it. In the case of PPYC, a negative is that PPYC is a for-profit club that exists to make money for the owners. In a perfect world I'd like to swear allegiance to a racing club whose facilities were owned by the members. PPYC doesn not have existing racing programs. That doesn't mean that they couldn't. CRAC certainly has the expertise to set one up, including junior programs. I've come to believe that if we cat sailors want to belong to a club and have a club cater to our interests, we're gonna have to find the place best suited to our boats, then get active and by doing so guide the club toward our interests. While PPYC is for-profit, it is still the best raw facility around. While it doesn't have a racing program, we could start one. Then PPYC would become a great resource for cat sailing. You guys are doing almost the same thing in Galesville. The facility is pretty rudimentary in that it is a vacant lot. But you guys have a racing program that is growing. If you all could buy that lot you'd have the beginnings of a real cool club. Maybe it would never be perfect (I understand that the reason that lot is vacant has something to do with running water issues), but I imagine the other clubs in Annapolis started in a similar way, just earlier in time, when things were cheaper.

I've always wanted to find some bit of land in some depressed part of the Chesapeake (read Eastern Shore) and buy it up with a group of sailors, to start a club. I've come to realize that while doing so could help insure that the club wouldn't disappear due to land use issues or ownership issues, those issues ain't show stoppers. Other clubs with very active multihull communities such as Miami YC and Cabrillo Beach YC are built on leased or rented land. It's really the members that make the club, and not necessarily land ownership. Such a club could exist in Annapolis if we so chose. I can see myself getting involved in such an effort once our Olympic campaign is over.

-Greg

If you are truely interested in getting some property on the eastern shore, I may be able to help. My father is the VP of the largest land developer on the Eastern Shore. He knows about property in places that many people don't even know existed. I launch my cat from my grandparents rocky shore with a makeshift ramp made up of old 2x12"s. However, the opposite shore of the creek would make for a PERFECT place to launch and store boats IMO. Only problem is Boone Creek is prone to sandbars at low tide See attached photo.
(the beach I am referring to is in the background, behind my baby)

Spot on, Greg. When you get done with your campaign and are ready to start, let me know. By the way, Fairwinds marina in Cape St. Claire (where I live) allows on-trailer mast up storage, and there's two launch ramps, bathrooms, water, electricity, for $300-$500 for the season. Annualized that would work out the same as PPYC, but you're paying for the months you use. Almost the same sailing venue (mouth of Magothy), but you have to use the launch ramp instead of a beach. I always thought that could be the basis for a club as well.

The owner of our lot started to build and then got tired of the run-around on permits from the County.

The West River Sailing Club members usually talk of space issues whenever cats are mentioned. Yet when you peek in their lot it doesn't seem too cramped... I remember hearing awhile ago that they had a big politcal fight that resulted in some of the classes leaving, including the Stars. I know their IC guys wouldn't mind us being there... Fast and Fun seemed well received there, but I did get to overhear the usual drivel about how our do/don't sail...

In reply to why don't beach cat owners join yacht clubs,
and Keiths answer:
"Maybe we are just all cheap! "

That's it for me.

I am very lucky to live near a place that has cheap mast up storage on a large river (Patuxent) just off the Chesapeake bay 1 hour south of Annapolis. An owner of small family farm on the water was a cat sailor when younger so has some bond with us and lets us keep our boats on a small corner. We have a club in name only with about 14 cats on the beach right now. But only 1/2 activly sailed. No facilities. Don't even have T-shirts, but do have a web site (Southern Maryland Catamaran Club http://www.geocities.com/sailsmcc/ ) I just hope building restrictions stay in place so they can't develop that land!

There is a local yacht club that I could join, SMSA. They are mostly a big boat club but do have an active weekly dingy racing program that includes catamarans. I pay a fee to race with them but do not have to join.

But bottom line the benefit to me to join would not be worth the cost since I already have mast up storage. We are relatively rural so the YC is not to expensive. I would join our local YC if I needed to for mast up storage but I am not sure I would join a more expensive club such as PPYC in Annapolis.

I'm another cheap cat sailor, but a lucky one. I pay $0 per year for year-round mast-up storage right on the beach, with the Gulf of Mexico 125 sandy feet away. It's a "vacant undeveloped lot" with restrictions that pretty much keep it from being developed. I leave my Cat-Trax tied up under my boat, and have a cinder-block sunk about 8' deep in the sand with a thick nylone rope coming up to tie my boat down with.
There are 3 other active catamaran sailors that keep their boats there, and 3 fairly abandoned cats. A lonely Escape that belongs to some friends of mine also sees frequent use.
Behind the sand dune that my boat sits in front of is a house who's owners only occasionaly use. When they are not present I can park in the driveway, and even use the hose to clean up a little when I'm through sailing. Two blocks south of my boat is the Sandbar Restaurant, which has an open-air deck and good food at a reasonable price for lunch.
The only caveat is that you have to sail your boat to the beach- the beach access road that ends a few yards from my boat has posts which prevent vehicle access. I suppose a couple guys could pick the boat up and over the posts if they were determined enough...

Our sailing club is located in the outer harbour on Lake Ontario in Toronto, Canada. We have about 150 members.Our club has mostly lasers and beach cats, but we have a limit of only 30 cats. The club is called the Water Rat Sailing Club and we are able to keep the cats on the beach or lauch from the ramp and keep our boats there all winter. At the club we have a porta potty and a sink and shower that is home made through troughs and rain barrels. The club also has a commitee boat with flags and racing bouy's and we race 2 times a week during sailing season. There is free beer provided after every race and the first thursday of every month there is a free BBQ. Our club is run by volunteers and is very relaxed and low key. I feel very lucky and fortunate to have a place to sail, race, store my cat and just relax and hangout for $150.00 per year. And that is Canadian dollars. Marvin.

How cheap are cat sailors???

Damn cheap and its killing the sport (racing) and interest in cat sailing!

Everyone recognizes that as a sport and as a boating activity, catsailing is at best holding its own. I suggest that folks look at how their choices with respect to where and how they go sailing impact on the sport as a whole.

The majority of responses were from sailors who keep their boats on essentially undeveloped property with zero and I mean zero amenities ( a port a pot is a big deal)
IMHO, this "rustic" enviorment is not and will never be attractive to new sailors or families who might get a cat and start sailing her.... (racing is way down the road for these newbies). It is just too harsh a place to be with family and invited friends.

A second large group of racers trailer from their back yards and establish a club at public parks for one weekend a month (Hobie regattas). Again the facilities available are rudimentary and a new sailor must trailer the rig AND get help from the spouse to raise the stick.. Most importantly.... a new sailor or interested sailor would have an impossible time finding this club. Finally, its asking an awful lot of a new sailor to go racing.

If trailering out of your back yard to public parks or roughing it on undeveloped property were such a great way of getting folks interested in sailing ... How come the monohull and dinhy sailors are not following our lead???

Establishing comfortable facilites for sailing and racing cats costs money and I believe that we should recognize that we have to step up to the plate and build these facilites and clubs.

Take Care
Mark

I'll offer a counter-point.

Maybe people that enjoy outdoor activities break down into two categories - one that values amenities and one that doesn't. On the monohull side, there are a ton of boats being kept in marinas that are not clubs. They cost less, and they don't have pools and tennis courts. I keep my keelboat in such a place. I could put it in a club-type facility in the area and double my slip fee if I valued those things. I, and a whole lot of people, don't. So I'm not sure that facilities like that are a requisite for growing sailing. There are lots of monos sailing off of moorings - the ultimate in no amenities.

Go to Sandy Point on a weekend and check out all power boaters using the ramps. They don't need a fancy club to grow their sport.

I don't play racquetball any more because the clubs kept adding things I don't use and raising the fees for court access.

Our rustic facility actually turned a few people away this year. We thought having the porta-pottie for the Lighthouse race was pretty cool. Some of our newer members are couples/newlyweds.

In terms of money, if buying a cat and putting it in a club type facility costs anywhere near a full size boat (sail or power) the whole family can ride on at once and do overnights, I think cat sailing will ultimately lose. I don't think I could ever justify the expense to my family for them to hang out at the club so dad can go sail. But, that's me, I know some people do.

But it's no doubt that the fancy cubs and facilities thrive, so there is a market there as well, obviously. And maybe they will help grow the sport. But again, if to get into the sport I need to buy a $14k boat and then pay a high fee to store and sail it, and the boat's primary use for racing, well...

I still think that to grow the sport we need to reach out to and bring in new sailors, not try to shift the habits of existing ones. And I'm not sure raising the amount of money required will help unless the image/societal part begins to draw the money crowd.

So maybe both approaches offer benefits and drawbacks, but both approaches are in full use for monos and dinghys as well. I wouldn't blame one for keeping the sport down.

That having been said, I do believe that we need some permanent facilities that cater more to cats around here. But I'm not sure I agree they need to or should be AYC, PPYC, EYC caliber/cost facilities.

I would love to be involved somehow in making a "cat haven" on the Eastern Shore. There are areas available, it just depends on how far you're willing to drive to get to your boat.

i dont belong to a yacht club for many reasons- 1. i have great free access to a beach i can roll the boat out on the trailer on with access to the harbor and ocean (sta 12. sullivans island). 2. have you seen the waiting list on some of these clubs, for membership and room in the parking lot, even if there is access to the water? 3. i am not a people person. 4. i hate going to meetings about sailing. 5. i go sailing to get away from everything and only concentrate on controlling the boat. 6. i am sure there are more....

Guess I will just ask another question off my original post.
What about families? I know that when people start having children, they tend to leave the beach scene because wives/mothers don't want to spend the whole day on a beach with two or three young children, dealing with sometimes primitive (or nonexistent) restroom facilities, having to provide shade to somehow keep the children protected from the sun, maybe having to deal with rain and wind and/or cold conditions, prepare food out of a cooler, while the husband/father is out sailing. My feeling is that during those years when you have young children, a club with facilities offers amenities that will make it more fun and comfortable for the rest of the family that are on shore while the men are out sailing.

And, of course, it is important to belong to a club that has a junior sailing program so the children can get involved at an early age.

A club gets your children involved with other children who sail, and that is the key. I know from personal experience, because my sister and I are still sailing, and I can guarantee you that all the other kids we knew from the yacht club we belonged to are still sailing, unless they are dead.

It seems like most of the posts on this thread are about me, me, me, and do not mention family.