It has been pointed out to me that hosts of the ISAF Youth Worlds have the option of choosing the equipment for their events. The two multihulls that can be used are the SL16 and the Hobie 16 with spinnaker. For the 2009 Worlds in Brazil, the Hobie 16 with spinnaker will be used. For the 2009 Worlds in Turkey, the ISAF Events Committee recommended the SL16 - that recommendation is yet to be upheld by the Council.

Regarding provided equipment - it did impress skiff and dinghy parents and kids that our fleet had provided boats and a USSA Committee standing by to give funding to teams from the event and pay for a coach to be on-site all weekend. Mark's point is valid with regard to the bigger picture, since provided equipment may not be sustainable from a manufacturer's standpoint if there's no market for the equipment provided (e.g., Hobie 16 spinnaker packages and SL16s).

Does anyone know if there are US Hobie youth teams sailing the 16 with the 'chute? Gordo?

Up in Comox, way up north on Vancouver Island where you can't see the north pole but you know you are pretty darn close to it, they have an active Hobie fleet. First it was 16s, then they switched to Waves. But the boat doesn't matter. What they were able to do was get sponsors to "buy" boats. I don't know if they bought the whole darn thing, or just a significant part of it, but each boat has the sponsor's name prominently displayed on it. It makes it kinda fun cuz each boat gets its own personality from its sponsor. Maybe we could do something similar...

I can envision the Hobie 16, with a spinnaker. Now follow me on this. First of all, Mark's point is well taken. If we can run it on a BYOB basis, then a HUGE cost and logistical nightmare gets transferred to the participants/parents. There are enough top-notch 16 sailors on the West Coast -- particularly in N. California -- that we can get charter boats down there if we need to. But a well-motivated youth team ought to be able to find a competitive Hobie 16 prior to the event, on their own, without too much trouble.

Next, we get the factory to donate or sell at a loss or at least at cost the spinnaker set-up.

And then -- and this is the really cool part -- we sell the spinnakers to sponsors. For the cost of a spinnaker kit we put their logo on the spinnaker and on the hulls! I mean, it should be a pretty easy sell, relatively speaking of course. We recover the cost of the spinnakers that were purchased from Hobie or, if they were donated, then the regatta turns into a money-maker and we can channel the money back into promoting more youth teams!

OK, before you guys torpedo this crazy idea, let me pre-empt you with some of the downside. 1) there may be extra time needed to rig the BYOB 16s with a spinnaker; 2) the time it takes to attract sponsors -- who is gonna do it?

The Hobie 16 is the most common platform for youth. It is the natural choice in my opinion. They are readily available so teams will have more opportunity to practice (albeit without a spinnaker). Or better yet, with paid entry and deposit, mail the spinnaker package to the entrant and have them install it in advance. That will save time before the event and give the teams opportunity to practice.

Obviously details need to be worked out. But on the whole, not a bad idea, eh?

The kids love 'living on the edge'. Extreme sports is in. And let's face it, a Hobie 16 w/o spin -- while a ton of fun -- is not 'living on the edge', particularly downwind. (You don't know how difficult that was for me to admit that!)

So it is settled -- the Hobie 16 w/ spin! Now on to ending world hunger and achieving world peace. Whew! Gonna be a busy day!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Hey Pete -

Forward thinking, as always. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Need to find a way around the advertising restrictions for the regatta, but I think the new committee could find a way. Take it to Lovell, dude. It could work.

Peter I like your way of thinking,some great ideas.One disagreement sometimes sailing a 16 downwind without a spi is living on the edge.I remember one particular experience,going down winnd in a line squall on Lake Superior.Breakwall about 10' to leeward.Heading up in 25-30+Knts of wind and driving rain was not an option.We ran along the break wall like this for about one mile.Luckly the squal passed as quickly as it formed.Sailing on Superior can be quite adventursome.

Peter, an excellent idea that could solve the boat issues. !

What we need to do is partner this solution of boat availability with a high profile training program.

We can start right away with the physically mature kids...who are looking at or already into 29ners and 420 campaigns plus the hobie youth sailors who are commited to getting good in the sport.

Note John W's comment that parents were impressed with "COACHING"

Can you imagine the instant credibility we would have if we had Johnny or Lars coming in to coach up the team.

On the Chesapeake, a non yacht club affiliated program CBOT,(Chesapeake Bay Opti Team) is an elite team. They show up a day ahead of the regatta... run a training session for the CBOT elite team that also offers the club's top opti sailors to join in the practice and get some coaching. When CBOT shows up to your regatta... your kids suddenly get serious. CBOTs goal is to win trophies at the national and international level.

It seems to me that what is needed is a training camp/ coupled with a major junior regatta in three or 4 regions around the country. Market this as an elite racing opportunity to the top junior sailors in the region. The top teams in the regatta are eligble for the US Sailing Youth Championships and all of the ISAF championships that follow.



The CISA program that is run in California would appear to be an outstanding program to copy. Replicate this in the Great Lakes, North East/Mid Atlantic, Gulf coast and the middle of the country.

What would it take... WE, the regions senior cat sailors would be needed to make the boats happen, volunteer to coach or assist. donate or get funding. In short.. be unstopable and make it happen.

Peter, an excellent idea that could solve the boat issues. !

What we need to do is partner this solution of boat availability with a high profile training program.

We can start right away with the physically mature kids...who are looking at or already into 29ners and 420 campaigns plus the hobie youth sailors who are commited to getting good in the sport.

Note John W's comment that parents were impressed with "COACHING"

Can you imagine the instant credibility we would have if we had Johnny or Lars coming in to coach up the team.

On the Chesapeake, a non yacht club affiliated program CBOT,(Chesapeake Bay Opti Team) is an elite team. They show up a day ahead of the regatta... run a training session for the CBOT elite team that also offers the club's top opti sailors to join in the practice and get some coaching. When CBOT shows up to your regatta... your kids suddenly get serious. CBOTs goal is to win trophies at the national and international level.

It seems to me that what is needed is a training camp/ coupled with a major junior regatta in three or 4 regions around the country. Market this as an elite racing opportunity to the top junior sailors in the region. The top teams in the regatta are eligble for the US Sailing Youth Championships and all of the ISAF championships that follow.

The CISA program that is run in California would appear to be an outstanding program to copy. Replicate this in the Great Lakes, North East/Mid Atlantic, Gulf coast and the middle of the country.

What would it take... WE, the regions senior cat sailors would be needed to make the boats happen, volunteer to coach or assist. donate or get funding. In short.. be unstopable and make it happen.

Good point, Mike -- sailing any cat, including the 16, in anything over 30k is 'living on the edge'!! We had that at the Reheboth NAs back in 03 (or whenever). We were in the back of a 70-boat pack after flipping off the line in about 30-35k. At the weather mark we were able to see a 40+ puff coming down and 'braced ourselves'. Unfortunately, the rest of the fleet was too pre-occupied with the 30-35k they already had to notice the puff coming down. At the gate, boats were pitchpoling everywhere, and we were trying to snake through them like a bunch of land mines without running over any of them!! In 40+k, it was 'living on the edge'. Hey, maybe we ought to start another thread titled 'living on the edge' and we can all swap lies!!

Glad you guys like the idea. I'll take it to Johnny and see what can come out of it.

So with all this prestige that exclusivity at this event provides they still can’t sell any boats? Makes me wonder if the organizers/salespeople actually have a clue or even care about what the kids like or want? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I can tell you one thing, kids like using supplied "brand spankin' new" boats for a regatta. May I be the first to suggest that this happens more often.

As far as I am concerned, the people supplying the boats to the kids should be the PARENTS of the kids. If they have to sell their own boat and forego racing for a few years so they can afford to buy a boat for the kids to sail for a few years and take them to regattas and clinics, that's what the parents should do.

Here, here, Mary.

When I see parent buying $50,000+ power boats so they can take their kids wake boarding, I have no qualms asking a parent to fork over $10,000 on a "brand spankin' new" Hobie or SL 16.

I have a h16 with spin.We need to develop h16spin and sl16 regional racing.My son has raced both boats.Both are good youth and adult platforms.I request that the US Sailing Portsmouth committee give these boats an official rating [about dpn73] and allow them to race in the Alter cup eliminations.If a difference in speed is detected then change the rating but there should be continued h16-sl16 events with portsmouth modification to encourage youth development.Also,why not
do the next two Alter cups in these boats.I bet Performance Cats would do it .It would be good for Hobie too[the people who buy the boats could take off the chute and race in the largest cat fleet].Why not require the Alter cup skippers to have a crew 18 or less. 20 good sailors competed to go to Denmark in the ISAF multihull trials. We need to help them do well and prepare them for Brazil in 2009 and Turkey in 2010.

PS.I bet the kid raising the chute in John W. post above will win the Art Stevens trophy more than once.

Oh man, is it really at $10,00 already? I thought it was around $8500 or something like that?

More like $13,250 with spin, snuffer, and trailer.

New 2007 SL16

You don't have to buy a NEW boat. Just a good used boat and add the spinnaker kit. Most people don't buy their teenagers brand spanking new cars, do they? I hope not. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

How much were those F16's again ?

And Mam & Dad can sail/race that baby as well.

Wouter

Parents are not going to buy a boat unless there is a program worth the time!

When you want to go racing... What's the number one piece of advice... Oh... just find the local active and biggest fleet, join up, get a boat, go racing.

No different for junior racers....

What program would you point this parent to check out?


hmm.... perhaps that is a problem.

We already have a "program." The problem is that it is the parents who are sailing in it -- all the regattas available to us catamaran sailors. Let the kids sail and let the parents work race committee and/or coach the kids.

Not pretending to have the answers here, but I agree with a few of the items above. There are parents out there in the Opti program that are buying $20,000 plus inflatables, paying coaches, buying new Optis at over $3000 each, etc. The program is what matters (meaning, regattas with 90 boats, sailing schools to get them started, etc.).

Certainly, we're not going to get there overnight. Going the elite route is a good idea, but again, we need to be careful about where we're getting our sailors. If we're "stealing" kids from mono programs, that will lead to getting uninvited in a big hurry. How elite can we be without a multihull in the Olympics, or is that not really a factor?

I think the sponsorship idea is great, but this takes a lot of time for a dedicated person (or group) to make sure it continues beyond a one-time occurance.

Mike