Your points are well taken, and the next time you’re felling extremely pompous please go visit the Margraten – Netherlands-American Cemetery and Memorial. I believe you will find the graves of many sanctimonious but brave, Americans that died defending your countries freedom.

Where's California again? I had realatives that fought in both theaters.

I think the internet is just not suited to these kinds of discussions. You have no non-verbal communication which is a really severe handicap. Not only that, but somehow talking to a screen lets people say harsh things they would never have said over a good glass of beer.
I think the best remedy is to have a beer together and discuss this off-line and face to face. The worst thing you could discover is that you probably have more in common with your 'adversary' than you could have imagined.
But, feel free to continue if you want to cash in on those 15 minutes of fame... Or was that infamy?

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I would guess you are a very nice man. But, just in case you do find yourself in an American bar, having a beer or three with some new American friends. Please refrain from America bashing. Just trust me on this. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Actually, I've developed a morbid fascination with America bashers. At first I tried to follow their reasoning, but "there lies madness". I've concluded it is something deeply psychological.

Pete,

how about viewing it the other way around. What would your reaction be if somebody told you that you better shut up about current events becouse they did you something good in the past? Not mentioning a word about wars or going after you personally, just a plain hypothetical question for general discussion.

You'd have to be more specific. You don't qualify as an America basher anyway. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Reasoned criticism is one thing. I'm refering to something more pathological.

Can somebody put some oil on this fire, it seems to be dying [or is that not the correct word here] out.

Any other country that valuenteers to be bashed by the CS community?

No Canadeans? they went to war with the US as well [kicked them out as I understand]

No more dutchies= maybe have a nice discussion about drugs?

Belgiums- now that is an invented country

South Americanos- some dictator discussions?

What I'm trying to say here, let's limit our discussion to sailing - I read this forums for relaxation - not for politics - people who feel the urge to discuss politics => go find politics related forum

happy sailing

Ok! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

A Canadian joke eh?
Found this joke on the SA forum the other day, very funny. (well I though so anyway):


President George Bush was in the Oval Office wondering which country
to invade next, when his telephone rang...

"Hallo, President Bush" a heavily accented voice said. This is Archie, up 'ere at the Harp Seal Pub in Badger's Cove, Newfoundland, Canada ey?
I am callin' to tells ya dat weare officially declaring war on you ey!"

"Well Archie," George replied, "This is indeed important news! How big is your army?"

"Right now," said Archie, after a moments calculation "there is myself, me cousin Harold, me next-door-neighbor Mick, and the whole dart team from the pub. That makes eight!"

George paused. "I must tell you Archie, that I have one million men in my army waiting to move on my command."

"Holy jeez," said Archie. "I'll have ta call ya back!"

Sure enough, the next day, Archie called again. "Mr. Bush, the war is still on! We have managed to acquire some infantry equipment!"

"And what equipment would that be Archie?", George asked.

"Well sir, we have two combines, a bulldozer, and Harry's farm tractor."

President Bush sighed. "I must tell you Archie, that I have 16,000 tanks and 14,000 armoured personnel carriers. Also I've increased my army to one and a half million since we last spoke."

"Lard T'underin' Jaysus, bye", said Archie, "I'll be getting back to ya."

Sure enough, Archie rang again the next day. "President Bush, the war is still on! We have managed to git ourselves airborne! We up an' modified Harrigan's ultra-light wit a couple of shotguns in the ****, and four byes from the Legion have joined us as well!"


George was silent for a minute then cleared his throat. "I must tell you Archie that I have 10,000 bombers and 20,000 fighter planes. My military complex is surrounded by laser-guided, surface-to-air missile sites. And since we last spoke, I've increased my army to TWO MILLION!"

"Jeysus, Mary and Joseph," said Archie,"I'll have ta call youse back."

Sure enough, Archie called again the next day. "President Bush! I am sorry to have to tell you dat we have had to call off dis 'ere war."

"I'm sorry to hear that" said George. "Why the sudden change of heart?"

"Well, sir," said Archie, "we've all sat ourselves down and had a long chat over a bunch of pints, and come to realize dat dere's no way we can feed two million prisoners."


CANADIAN CONFIDENCE CANNOT BE SHAKEN!

During the cold war, the Kremlin tried to shake American confidence. They ordered 10 million condums, of huge dimensions, from an American company. Not wanting to lose the business the company asked the Pentagon's permission to fill the order.

The Pentagon replied, "sure, just mark them medium and ship 'em."

Just after 9/11 the president of Brazil called Bush and told him that "We did it. We, Brazilians. It was all planned here in our capital and financed with our money".

Bush was furious. "How dare you insult the American people? And now you are provoking me! I'll kill you!"

And the Brazilian went on: "come on, you don't have the guts...".

Bush was even more furious: "this has gone too far, I'll send an air strike NOW. Where did you say you were?"

"In Brazil's capital".

Bush: "Where is it?"

"Mr. Bush, everybody knows that Brazil's capital has always been in Buenos Aires..."

Last time I checked it was part of the USA; however, my Spanish is improving daily.

This is definately the downside of aurguing things via forum. For whatever conceded thought went through my head I thought this comment was directed at me. I'm an A-hole.



I'm sorry for being a schmuck. And for not being able to spell.

Try explaining that to their mother...I bet she kicks you in the balls

You are certainly correct about having a lot in common Dennis. Sailing multihulls is an obvious commonality. I belong to an outdoor club and the members are very close, but politics is one thing that we can not discuss. We have a wide and differing view among our members and have had some extremely heated discussions in the past while camping. I think now it is unspoken knowledge to keep your polititcs to yourself so as to not destroy friendships. I suppose you could say we agree to disagree and leave it at that. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

we SHOULD be able to discuss anything.

If you can't respectfully agree to disagree then... bite your tongue.

Talking sh*t is what makes communication fun, but check your emotions at the door, and be mindful of ignorant hostile comments.

Surely you fossils out there don't need someone half your age to mediate your arguments

Before going off into deep end of self rightiousness here guys, do some checking on the numbers of of soldiers fighting in the Netherlands from each nation.

Most were Brits, Poles and Canadians. They certainly took most of the casualties in disasterous operations like "Market Garden" ( = Arnhem).

If anybody died for my mummy then it was probably one of them.

I'm sure many quarterbacks will also claim to have won the game all by themselves.


Now lets talk sailing again !

Wouter

Ok Wouter, time to 'fess up!
How much did tikipete pay you to post this?
;-p

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey Wouter thought you may find this interesting since you brought it up

The Americans committed two airborne divisions to Operation Market Garden the 101st and the 82nd. As well, the British had sent in the 1st Airborne Division they were supplemented by a Polish Airborne brigade. There were a total of 1432 soldiers from the 82nd and 2110 from 101st airborne division that lost their lives, while the British lost 1653. Can't find any information on the Pols or the Canucks.