| Re: Rules
[Re: Mark P]
#132092 02/17/08 04:28 AM 02/17/08 04:28 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | There is never a right time to be controversial but since there has been a small discussion here about rules recently have a look at the photo below and ask yourself if this adjustable diamond tensioner is in the spirit of the rules!! The owner could possibly argue that this mechanism is never used during a race scenario but the ease in which it can be adjusted would be open to abuse!! I have checked the rules but still could be wrong but adjusting diamond tension during a race is prohibited. Mark, I think, for those who do not know our rules, it would be appropiate to post a link to the rule that prohibit's this. I cannot find one!
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Rules
[Re: scooby_simon]
#132093 02/17/08 04:38 AM 02/17/08 04:38 AM |
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,584 +31NL Tony_F18
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Posts: 2,584 +31NL | This it? http://www.formula16.org/content/view/13/36/lang,en/"1.7 Rigging and equipment 1.7.1 It is not permitted to adjust the following items while racing: the rake of the mast, the tension of the standing rigging, the angle or length of the spreaders or the position and height of the gennaker boom. 1.7.2 It is permitted to adjust the diamond wire tension while racing or to adjust the items named under 1.7.1 between races." | | | Re: Rules
[Re: Tony_F18]
#132094 02/17/08 04:54 AM 02/17/08 04:54 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | This it? http://www.formula16.org/content/view/13/36/lang,en/"1.7 Rigging and equipment 1.7.1 It is not permitted to adjust the following items while racing: the rake of the mast, the tension of the standing rigging, the angle or length of the spreaders or the position and height of the gennaker boom. 1.7.2 It is permitted to adjust the diamond wire tension while racing or to adjust the items named under 1.7.1 between races." Yes, Thanks Tony, was just going to find it but got distracted. It clearly states that adjustable diamonds are allowed.
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Rules
[Re: scooby_simon]
#132095 02/17/08 04:55 AM 02/17/08 04:55 AM |
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 954 Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K Mark P OP
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Posts: 954 Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K | Hi Simon I thought I was going mad but I knew I had read this somewhere: Other main rules * Mid height width of gennaker is at minimum 75 % of length foot. * Boat must be rightable by any crew either solo or doublehanded * The rig may not be trimmed between start and finish by other means than sheet, downhaul, outhaul, traveller, mast rotation and halyards systems. * Only "soft" sails are allowed. * Using multiple sets of the top three battens to fine tune the rig to the crew (1-up/2-up) is permitted and does not require remeasurement of the sail * No ballast other than corrector weights are allowed * The wearing of bouyancy aids is compulsary during (open) Formula 16 races Therefore it seems as if we have a contradiction in our rules? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> MP*MULTIHULLS | | | Re: Rules
[Re: Mark P]
#132096 02/17/08 05:06 AM 02/17/08 05:06 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | Hi Simon I thought I was going mad but I knew I had read this somewhere: Other main rules * Mid height width of gennaker is at minimum 75 % of length foot. * Boat must be rightable by any crew either solo or doublehanded * The rig may not be trimmed between start and finish by other means than sheet, downhaul, outhaul, traveller, mast rotation and halyards systems. * Only "soft" sails are allowed. * Using multiple sets of the top three battens to fine tune the rig to the crew (1-up/2-up) is permitted and does not require remeasurement of the sail * No ballast other than corrector weights are allowed * The wearing of bouyancy aids is compulsary during (open) Formula 16 races Therefore it seems as if we have a contradiction in our rules? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> With my UK measurer hat on I would say that we are using a "sheet" to change the diamond tension. The general definition of a "sheet" is "a length of rope used to alter the angle of the sail to the wind". Which in the broadest sense it is doing as mast bend effects sail shape and that effects the angle of the sail to the wind. If asked to rule on this, I would allow an adjustable diamond setup that was adjustable while sailing.
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Rules
[Re: Mark P]
#132097 02/17/08 05:08 AM 02/17/08 05:08 AM |
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 954 Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K Mark P OP
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Posts: 954 Mumbles Y.C Wales U.K | May be it's not so much as a contradiction as it is that I have got confused over definitions. When I saw the word rig I instantly thought of standing rigging, but I think in this case rig means the sails. SORRY.
Last edited by MarkP; 02/17/08 05:10 AM.
| | | Re: Rules
[Re: Mark P]
#132098 02/17/08 05:23 AM 02/17/08 05:23 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | May be it's not so much as a contradiction as it is that I have got confused over definitions. When I saw the word rig I instantly thought of standing rigging, but I think in this case rig means the sails. SORRY. Mark; Don't worry; I had to check the definition a few months back when looking at that boat. I feel I already have enough bits of string to play with woithout adding daimon controls!
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Rules
[Re: macca]
#132100 02/17/08 06:15 AM 02/17/08 06:15 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | I would define Standing rigging as:- All lines/wires used to support the mast.
I believe the ISAF definition is pretty much in line with that. Would have to check to be sure.
So I guess the issue comes down to which of the F16 rules has priority. 1.7.2 states you can adjust the diamond tension during a race.
However in the "main rules" section it's stated that: The rig may not be trimmed between start and finish by other means than sheet, downhaul, outhaul, traveller, mast rotation and halyards systems.
The above rule seems to contradict 1.7.2
I think its a big stretch to say that you are using a sheet to adjust the sails... via the diamond tension. The boat passed measurement at the last event in Holland. It's class legal.
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Rules
[Re: macca]
#132106 02/17/08 06:55 AM 02/17/08 06:55 AM |
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 322 South Australia Marcus F16
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Posts: 322 South Australia | Andrew - 17ft & 80kgs is not exactly a similar comparison.
It appears there could be a contradiction, but it will be upto the INternational F16 Association & the F16 Techincal committee to decide.
No point locking horns over this one. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Marcus Towell
Formula Catamarans Aust Pty Ltd
| | | Re: Rules
[Re: macca]
#132107 02/17/08 06:56 AM 02/17/08 06:56 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | Well, I assume this boat will be at the event at Mumbles in the summer. Shall we see if it measures then too? I bet it does.
No-one protested this boat at Zandvoort, thus implying that the rest of the F16 owners present believed that the boat was class legal.
Thanks to Mark for highting this possible inconsistancy in the class rule set; we will work to make it clearer in future.
To state the opinion of a class measurer (me);
"Diamond wires that are adjustable while sailing are allowed".
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Rules
[Re: macca]
#132110 02/17/08 07:08 AM 02/17/08 07:08 AM |
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 322 South Australia Marcus F16
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Posts: 322 South Australia | Yes - I agree, but obviously if the F16 technical committee does not agree with the contradiction, then I guess there is no issue.?
Yes - there sure is a measurement form.
Marcus Towell
Formula Catamarans Aust Pty Ltd
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