It seem to remember reading a discussion on this before, but can't seem to find it. What's the most weight you've put out on a trapeze (or pair of them). What will the rig support?

I have a 92 P18-2. Wires & mast are in good shape. No fraying wires or corrosion on the mast. My brother wants to go sailing with me this summer. Just a guess, but he must weight in around 260 or a little more. I'm about 185#.

I double trap with my regular crew (210#'s or so) without too much concern, but just wondering where the limit is or should be.

Thanks

With that kind of weight I think you need a Reynolds 33. You must have quite a bit of helm with 445lbs on an 18-2. If you have any doubts you should just replace the wires. It's not too expensive and better than trolling with your crew.On the positive side you guys might do pretty well in heavy air. Greg

Sorry, after I looked at my post I realized I didn't answer the question you were asking. I don't think you should be as concerned about the stress on the trap wires themselves. If you have 445lbs on the wire in a breeze you will be loading up your shrouds and mainbeam. Make sure your shrouds and all associated connections are sound. In addition check the tension on your dolphin striker. If it is too loose you will be putting a lot of load on your mainbeam. Greg

Thanks greg. I don't know yet if I'll have quite a bit of helm with him on board as he hasn't been on the boat yet. My 2 regular guys that crew with me go about 190 & 210 respectively. So normally in a decent breeze I have about 375-400 on the wire.

I didn't think to verify the sticker with the weight on there, I'll check that out carefully first.
I'm a bit leery putting both my brother and I on the wire, so I'm leaning towards just putting him out there and I'll ride the hull.

[Edit]
If all wires are new and the sticker is tight, what is the expected weight limit now?

What's the most weight you have put on the wire of a boat this size?

As for the actual trapeze wire, they should be fine unless you find a guy weighing 500 lbs or so.
If you are talking about the possible problems with the shrouds and how much weight total is on the trapeze that is different. There is only so much weight that the side stays will EVER take because if there is too much pressure on the sail it will capsize the boat so technically the maximum load the shroud sees is the same regardless of trapeze weight. More weight on the trapeze will lessen the load on windward shroud.

Having a lot of weight on the trap will increase the stress on the forestay (the highest loaded stay by far because you are pulling on it with the mainsheet and also with the trap weight if you are back on the boat). There is also a large compressive force on the mast with that much weight on the wire.
When I did synthetic stays on a 18HT I made the top forestay out of a larger diameter than the any other stay because of the load it takes.

Two summers ago, I sailed my Hobie 18 in hatteras. At one point, I took out my 6'5", 260lb sasquach friend. He and I (at 200+lb) were double trapping, so thats over 460lb on the mast. I was actually a little concerned wether it would hold, but no problem. There is also an old hobie video of guys adding a third trap to an 18, so that would probably push it over 500lb.

sm

PTP makes a good point regarding the stresses on the forestay. This in turn can load up the bridle pulling the bows together. I sailed an old H16 once and had the port bow collapse due to the strain that the old delaminated fiberglass couldn't handle. When I had a P19 I had taken out two 200lb+ guys in the wire with me sitting and steering. It was blowing in the high teens. Nothing broke but the excess helm and sluggish response didn't feel right.

All good advice,
but think about it, if you are flying a hull, you've got more force going in the other direction thru the mast.
I know the total of the vectors, etc., are more complicated than that, but the basic idea still exists.

Are you afraid of 'inverting' the mast? Been there, done that

The overall rig will see alot more forces in winds that is loaded more, as in flying a hull with more righting moment.(trapped weight).

You may also want to be concerned about the weight on the side of the hull when flying.

Hi,

I sail a P-19mx that I have had since 1991. At your crew wieghts you should be on a P-19 also, anything above 325lbs is 20' boat crew wieght territory. The P-18/2 is a wonderful boat but it was designed to sail in the 275-325lbs weight range with the P-19 being its bigger stronger brother. In fact if you look at the two boats from a distance they a impossible to tell them apart as they are just different sized clones.

All the advice mentioned above is very good. Lets just "fill in" some blanks.

When you have a chance, go and with your palm flat on the hull, rub/feel just in front of the front beam (between the hulls). Does it feel smooth and flat ??? Or does it feel like it has ripples/waves there ??? If you have waves/ripples they are being caused by excessive forces toeing-in the bows. So how can we stiffen your boat to carry higher loading in the rig.

First, The dolphin striker to the P18/2 and P19 are bolted onto the front main-beam. Inspect it closely at the last (outside) bolt/nut holding the dolphin striker onto the front main-beam, the one closest to the hull. When "pushed" excessively the front-beam can crack starting at that hole/point and the crack slowly propagates around the front beam until it catastrophically fails. (been there, done that). If it has started to crack you will need to replace the front-beam.

I had just converted my P-19 to a P-19mx (sq top) when my front-beam failed, what I did when my origonal front-beam failed is I sectioned the old beam into 18" lengths, cut off the luff track portion, and the DROVE the 18" section into/inside of the new front beam. This gave me a double thick front-beam at the point of highest loading, greatly stiffing the front-beam. I also installed a NACRA bow-foil on the boat also. I tried both the N5.5NA and N6.0NA foils. The one that worked best was the N6.0NA Bow-foil. By installing the bow-foil I greatly reduced the "toe-in" loading forces on the hulls that come from the 45degree attachment angle the bridles are configured at that transfer the load to the hulls. The bow-foil is only 9-12" above the deck and I am using Amsteel/Vectra/Dynema for the short bridle pigtails as the SS Wire one breaks very quickly at the marine eye terminals due to their very short length. Currently my angle of attachment in the horizontal plane is 15degrees vs the previous 45 degrees.

If you wish you may use 1/8" amsteel/vectra/dynema for trap wires as it is actually stronger then SS wire and is rated at approx 2400lbs. BUT note it is more prone to Chaffing and UV damage and should be replaced every few years.

I hope my experiences are usefull to you ...
Sail Flat, Sail Fast
HarryMurphey
H18mag/#9458, Fleet54/Div11
P-19mx? #86, CRAC:{Catamaran Racing Fleet(of the)Chesapeak}

BlockP I sail a P19 myself and the total crew weight it carries is 225KG (496 lbs) or 185 KG (407 lbs) depending on who is crewing. She holds up well. Some time ago i found some photo of three guys sailing a P19, I think it was at the TheBeachcats.com hope you forgive me the hijack. Harry could you tell me more about Your P19 conversion, Did you do anything else to accommodate the squarehead sail? And how much of a difference has the change in sailtype made?

Good advice HMurphey. The boat is in my storage until things thaw out here, but I'll check the items you mentioned with the front beam when I get it out.

Yes, I know I'm overweight for the boat, but this is just a recreation type boat. Yes, the boat sails much better with my wife or other lighter friends on it with me, but it just happens that the 2 guys that are my "regulars" are closer to 200#'s. Unless I find a sweet deal on a 19 or 20 (anyone with one want to trade for an 18? ;o) ), I don't really have plans to up size from the 18.

As for putting my brother on the wire, I'll get him on the wire, but I think we'll just single trap when I take him out.

I purchased my P19 in 1995 and upgraded it to the MX 5 years later. The MX sails were from Ullman via Jay and Pease Glaser. They were very helpful with tuning information. The boat is quite a bit faster downwind in the MX configuration. Upwind the squaretop main is more forgiving as it twists off in gusts. On the downside the larger headsail sometimes gets caught on the wishbone for the mast rotator if the crew doesn't handle it correctly. You have to install a "jib pole" to support the deeper foot of the jib. This pole allows you to mount a windex on the end. This helps a lot in light wind when you sit forward of the mainbeam to keep the transoms out of the water. I highly recommend going for the MX upgrade. Very few non-spinnaker boats can keep up with you downwind in a breeze.

GregP19 thanks for the info, getting greedy now, does anyone have experience with putting a spinnaker on their P19?