Rolf et. al

I have a question regarding this comment.

Note this is my personal obsevation, but in Europe people seem to be very accepting of the idea of the box rule or Formula class as it pertains to racing. The A class and F18 both thrive and the ideas of design obsolecense etc do not seem to be a factor.

Contrary to this, in the US, the idea of a true formula concept is a tough sell. The A class is just starting to get enough participation to move it away from its "cult" status. The F18 class had a huge push a couple years ago when a few people put in the effort to really promote some events. Quite a few people jumped boats and seemed to be consolidating to the F18 class. It may be just coincidence but it seemed like the moment NACRA introduced the Infusion all the F18's in our area anyway went up for sale. I heard many complaints of "not being able to compete now against the new platform" and "not wanting to be in an arms race class". The F18 (in FL anyway, maybe not nationwide) went from being the next great thing to not having enough boats for a class at almost all of last years events.

IN any open / developmental type class the design life of a model is going to be about 3 to maybe 5 years. Most changes will likely be solely cosmetic, but the buyers expect something new when moving to a new boat now. New lines and a new set of sails and a boat is realisticaly cometitive for many years. The serious racers and the technoweinies usually buy sooner and new helps this along with now having a good supply of decent used boats.

From a class marketing standpoint, getting across and selling the formula concept is something we might need to spend some time considering.

Wow from class slogan, to normal and not cool, to marketing to selling boats!

ahhahahaha

Sorry folks, but "normal" "easy to read" "fun" "family" oriented has been out since 1990. This is 2008 and the hardcore badass you will get hurt and lose a rib is totally IN and hip with the younger crowd.

We need to get away from the "traditional" bs that some of you are stuck on.

In most northern parts of the country, it would be speeds under 10 mph for most of the summer, and probably the same in Florida. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> But for a lot of people that does not have anything to do with the fun of just being out on the water, sailing (and paddling). <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I LOVE it.

Yes!

"This is 2008 and the hardcore badass you will get hurt and lose a rib is totally IN and hip with the younger crowd."

That lets me out! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> And,uh, how old are you now? Old enough to remember when the young hip crowd said, "don't trust anybody over thirty"?

I just tunred 31 a few days ago. A lot younger than a lot of you around here. Ive been working on designing artwork and graphics for three years now. When my work is put down by a bunch of people who have no idea about design work, I get upset and wont take any criticism by them seriously enough to even consider the suggestions they offer.

Plus at least im trying to do something unlike others.
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I should add (on behalf of us boring old people) that one of the big reasons why existing sailors are interested in the A-Class and the F-16 is because the sailors are getting older and they need lighter boats that are easier to move around and easier to raise the mast. Plus their wives or kids are no longer crewing for them, so they have to be able to do things by themselves that they used to have a partner to help them with.

So it is probably not nice to knock the "old" people who are looking at the F16 as their next boat, nor to imply that this is a boat for kick-butt young people, which would intimidate the older people who don't really want to break a rib. And, of course, the "younger crowd" who want to break a rib probably can't afford the boat anyway.

They're probably sailing kites.

Anybody wanna guess the average age of catamaran sailors? I'm thinking 50 something.

Mary no one was knocking the old foggies around here. I said what I said because seems like I am getting criticized by you; with ideas that just do not make any sense in todays graphics design world.

The entire NORMAL, people that are NOT in the class this or that. People who dont race blah blah blah. The entire class slogan or t shirt design is for PEOPLE who are actually in the class and actually race the F16. All those folks know and understand the excitement there is when sailing these boats on the edge of losing it.

You think that I will not push my limits because I want things to be normal on the boat? Or because I dont want to get hurt? Or because I dont want to break the boat? GIVE ME A BREAK! I will push the boat until I get hurt, until something breaks, thats half the fun of it all! If it were up to me, I would have as a slogan "If you feel in control you are sailing to slow!"

But hey thats me I guess im too young for you to understand that.

That's probably close. Problem is that when they get close to 50, they start dropping out. And that's where the F16 comes in. It can extend their sailing years because of the light weight. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm sorry; I did not know I was criticizing YOU. I thought I was just offering suggestions to the class in general about general things to do with marketing. Apparently, you do not like my old-fashioned ideas, and that's fine. I'm just an old foggie, whatever that is. I think you meant fogie, but I definitely am a little foggie a lot of the time, too. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Robi, the thing is, the F16's right now are few and far between, scattered across the continent. When you put on one of those T-shirts, YOU can't see the back of it unless you look over your shoulder in the mirror. And chances are that no other F16 sailors are going to see it, either, unless you have a fleet somewhere -- and those sailors already ARE excited about the boat.

The whole idea is to get OTHER people interested in: Number one, Sailing; Number two, sailing a catamaran; and Number three, sailing an F16 catamaran. Like I said, you are trying to attract the other people who are in line behind you when you are checking out at Home Depot -- and that's probably mostly not the "younger crowd."

I always think of my T-shirts as billboards. Every time I wear one of my "Hog's Breath Beer" regatta T-shirts, I am very conscious that I am advertising that product.

Of course, if you hang out a lot in places where young people hang out, maybe you should have one kind of message on your shirt, and if you are hanging out where older people hang out, a shirt with a different message. Know what I mean?

Mary, I was under the impression that these were not going to be cotton, wear them to the Home Depot type shirts, but rather the rash guard type shirt that would only be worn while sailing, unless you like to wear that stretchy nylon rash guard type stuff to Home Depot, I'll pass...

Sorry, I guess I missed that. I thought you were talking about T-shirts.

Interesting comment about F18 Matt. How real do you think the performance advantage of the Infusion is? The Capricorn and Tiger were competitive before the Infusion arrived and as far as I can tell they are still considered to be after the Infusion release. That suggests that any performance improvement of the Infusion is relatively small. Could it be that people who bought new boats pre-Infusion just didn't like feeling that they had now the previous generation boat even if the difference on the race-course is relatively small compared with the effect of sailor skill and natural wear and tear etc?

It's not how long your hulls are...

It's how you use them!!!

And for the older crowd...

Throw away the Viagra and sail a F16

In one of the shirt threads, Robi says these will be COTTON T-shirts. Maybe you should double-check, so you will know what you are getting.

Mary, you are correct, Robi has told me the price is for Cotton T-shrits, I guess I missed the transition, because the last thing I remember was people said they didn't like cotton T-shirts for sailing and would prefer a rash guard type shirt. Mox-Nix, I've got plenty of both.