This thread is not for discussing the pros and cons of the F16 minimum weight defined in the class rules. This thread is created to try and gather as many datapoints as we can manage for the weight of current F16s.

Please use the following schema when posting:

Sail no:
Platform: (Stealth, Blade, Mosquite, Taipan etc.)
Name of boat:
Owner:
Weighted by:
Comments on the platform:


Using the above should make it possible to gather weights in a neutral manner.

I'll decline, at least for now. If and when we get a certified measurer at the club I'll get you some numbers.

So, just to make sure everybody is on the same page, I got this off the class web site. Sounds like you weigh the boat with mast, sails, boards, rudders, everything; right?

And you would have to weigh it twice, once with the jib on the boat and once without, to get the accurate weights for both single-handed and double-handed; right?

1.3 Boat weight
The minimum weight of the boat ready to sail, excluding non-permanently fitted wings, is fixed at:

1.3.1 Singlehanded mode (cat rigged with gennaker): 104 kg (= 230 lbs),

1.3.2 Doublehanded mode (sloop rigged with gennaker): 107 kg (= 236 lbs).

Interestingly enough the "Head measurer of the F16 class" refuses to put the measured weight on my measurement form despite repeated requests to do so from myself. I have not lodged a formal complaint yet as I would like to give the GC time to sort this one out in an amical manner.

My boat has been measured fully in May 2007 when it was dry and clean. I was present at the measuring and memorized the measurements.


Sail no: NED 243
Platform: Taipan F16 (not modified but purpose build as an F16)
Name of boat: Actaully it doesn't have a name but is known to some as Typhoon or Yellow Danger.
Owner: Wouter J. Hijink
Weighted by: Pieter Saarberg

Weights : 121.8 kg ready to sail in 2-up mode.

Comments on the platform:

Timber-epoxy/aluminium homebuild using several "heavy" components due to cost and availability. Example : uses 4 mm stays (1200 kg) through out, daggerboards are 2.1 kg a piece, glass battens instead of foam core ones, heavy cloth for spi and mainsail by choice (durability). Heavy 10 mm solid core spi sheet as I still had that laying around. Proctor spreader arms. Taipan mast section as mainbeam instead of 80x2 mm round tube as I could get that section free of charge. 50x1.6 boom as that will withstand me falling or standing on it (as has happened multiple times now). Probably also couple of other things that I forget to mention now.

There is absolutely no doubt that I can get this boat to be below 120 kg by changing out some minor parts like battens, stays and boom for lighter versions. Which is not bad considering that this boat is the prototype F16 (= very first purpose build boat for the F16 class).

Wouter

Mary,

You are correct.


Although a boat weighting 107 kg or more in 2-up mode will never weight less then 104 when the jib and related hardware is removed. The jib sail and related hardware weight actually 2 kg or less in total when using a selftacking setup.

We knew this already at the time of writing the F16 class rules, but we wanted to make sure that a compliant F16 2-up boat (incl. corrector weights) would also be compliant for 1-up after removing the jib sails and related jib hardware and WITHOUT EXCHANGING CORRECTOR WEIGHTS.

It seemed pointless to us to write the class rules in such a way that each crew had to carry around two different corrector weights; 1 for 2-up sailing and 1 for 1-up sailing.

Wouter

I don't know what you mean by "corrector weights."

Sure just a coincidence. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If a F16 boat is measured to be underweight (below 104 in 1-up or 107 in 2-up mode) then the owner may add a corrector weight (of no more then 7 kg in total) to the craft to become F16 weight compliant again.


Example 1 ; say my boat weights 105 kg in 2-up mode, then I may add 2 kg of lead to my mainbeam to reach 107 kg and thus be regarded as F16 weight compliant for 2-up sailing.

I this owner removed his 2 kg jib + associated gear package then he would need a corrector weight of AT LEAST 1 kg to be 1-up compliant. Or he can just use the 2-up corrector weight of 2kg he already has for sailing 2-up and just accept sailing 1 kg overweight.


Wouter

Andrew, There is a MINIMUM weight rule for the class. If a boat is built under this weight, it is NOT made to spec.

I have made this comment before, but I still fail to comprehend the logic of having the majority of the boats having to carry dead weight. This is a devolpment class that is still very much in its infancy. A min weight where it is currently set will prevent someone from building the "super platform" The builders such as Formula, AHPC, and us have all choosen certain processes and componets for our boats. These may not be the optimal in weight, but were choosen for convenience of sourcing or cost. All are Formula 16 boats as they fully fit within the rules. People have choosen to buy these for a variety of reasons despite the class being very new/non existant. Will the class see some huge increase in popularity due to a revision of the rules requiring most of the boat owners go out and tie lead to their platforms? I seriously doubt it.

FYI All of the weights from the measuring at Zandvoort last year were published after the event for anyone wanting do do some searching as I remember seeing it a couple of different times.

As my name keeps getting drug into this:

We weight every hull comming out of the mold, but typically not the fully assembled boats. (Note I am a class measurer for the A class and will weight boats for reference purposes, but do not record it on the form as they will be weighed at certain events anyway, and the measured weights at events will vary depending on the conditions such as how dry your boat is.) Hull shell weights have a range of about 1 lb. Some of the early boats vary more than this as we developed the process and people, but this has been pretty consistant for a while now.

We did a cert weight on all of the Alter Cup boats. These had a range if 1.2 kg with an average of 110.5, for a complete spin rigged platform. Without going to any "exotics" in materials or procedures, we could modify some of the rigging and change extrusions and be right at min. The A class over time has gradualy lowered their min weight. (They have reached a point where it is a very expensive platform now IMO, but they still have a very active class) As builders look at new F16 designs, starting from scratch they can source specific made components and more easily produce min weight boats. Processes and materials also will evolve, as they always do, such that it will likely be possible to produce parts lighter or less expensive. As a builder I see no issue with the rule as it stands. Will I see an increase in sales becuase the min weight increase - Definitely no. Will AHPC, whos boat by choice is fair amount heavier see an increase in sales. Probably not as such a huge factor in platform choice revolves around the sourcing and support.

As one of the early class members I feel the weight issue is fine. I enjoy sailing. Being on a mono hull is even fine on occasion, but I really enjoy the F16 as much as any other boat I have owned. While the platform is definitely not for everyone, get on an F18, F17, FX1 etc and run a sise by side comparison. World wide serious cat racing the F18 is it. Distance racing buy a 20, over the 350lb range, go bigger too. The competiveness of the existing F16 platforms, likely including the heavier Viper, is such I have a choice a great sailing boats that fit a certain nitch.

Just for the record and for people unfamiliar with the Alter Cup event.

This certification enclosed 10 VWM Blade F16's as build over the winter of 2006/2007.

Wouter

Matt, just to keep things fair for everyone and this thread on track. Most of your post was very informational and on topic, but lets keep the min. weight discussion out of this thread.

OK, But for my own education, what purpose does this thread serve?

I have never seen any other class or association publishing this information.

Contiued harping on this seems to provide no other purpose than feeding the trolls.

There was expressed interest in this from several owners in "that other thread". I suppose they want to compare their own boats with numbers eventually published here.
I dont want to see the trolls get fat, but if members wants to know and others wants to make it public..

I know the measurement numbers from the Tornado worlds was published in the yearbook. I suppose other classes dont publish these numbers becouse they dont attract the same kind of attention?

Maybe the wrong thread, but definitely a worthwhile post. Thanks Matt!

At first I also thought it was strange not to put the weight of the platform on the measurement form.
After a second thought, it is too easy to change the weight of a boat so that number has no meaning really.

Anyone if you finish in the front on big events, the boat will be weighed again anyway.

Gill

Ok, So no boats listed here are at min weight as yet.

MattM, As a boat builder you should be aware of the need to build a NEW boat slightly under Min weight. This would be due to the natural weight gain that all boats will incurr over their COMPETITIVE lifespan. Its much easier to remove lead as a boat ages and gets older, both from natural water ingression to the core and through repairs etc. Pretty hard to try and find real weight savings after the boat is completed. As Wouter has described... He is looking to save from things like smaller dia wires and lighter battens, we are talking about grams not KGs with that stuff combined (unless he is using lead battens!)

I dont know any A class builders that aim for an overweight boat, Same for a Tornado, F18, 505, Finn, 470, 49er, 29er, 14ft skiff, IC, Farr40, TP52, VO70, hell Nobody builds overweight boats!! it would be commercial suicide..

Macca, you are at it again. It stops here!
This thread is for posting of actual boatweights, which was clearly spelled out in the first post in the thread. It was even repeated for one of the boatbuilders in the class. It should be impossible to not understand this.

I know Hans' Boat is under Min Weight, he is carrying lead
I Know Wayne's Boat is under minimum weight, he is carying lead
I expect mine to be under Min weight, I will be carrying lead.

Weights please....

Rolf,

Discussion on Forums will always evolve... MattM made a comment that needed answering! Simple.